Luongo To Start Against Germany

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Yep. Not to mention a guy who tells the truth.

I don't really know what you're arguing here: you're saying that Brodeur's not a champion? Or that Luongo is?

Both of those are objectively untrue. So lean on whatever rhetoric you want--you're on the wrong side of this one.

I don't know that you can really make the Brodeur is humble argument considering his comments after the game. They pretty much amounted to 'I did my job, they didn't' when the reality was he was atrocious. If he doesn't make a couple costly mistakes the team had done enough to get the win. That's not to say the team played great, but he made it pretty clear that he wasn't taking any blame.

[Kesler17]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't know that you can really make the Brodeur is humble argument considering his comments after the game. They pretty much amounted to 'I did my job, they didn't' when the reality was he was atrocious. If he doesn't make a couple costly mistakes the team had done enough to get the win. That's not to say the team played great, but he made it pretty clear that he wasn't taking any blame.

Hey hey, he's humble and he's just telling the truth haha

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Kesler17

Swinging at a puck which is in mid air like a Sosa swing is a hockey play? come on

Talking about his fault, how about the third goal where he went for that stupid poke check.

You can spread the blame on a lot of canada players on that play. He could of played it better, but he also wasn't able to get back into position thanks to the bodies in his crease...bad communication, unfarmilair with goalies tendencies, who knows...bad play all around...the other 2 goals were redirects...so not sure if you can blame him for that

[Infamous1]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Well Brodeur gets crucified for his at bat play, which should be the only thing he gets crucified for, at least it was a "hockey" play...Luongo gets caught being ref/captain in OT in an elimination game is much much worse...much worse, that and he shat himself

Trust me when it happened, I was in shock.....such an easy shot to save and it went in because he was distracted. The Canucks didnt deserve to win that game being outshot something like 63-27 and he was the only reason it got to double OT. If he just plays like himself and doesnt try to do too much aka Brodeur, Canada will go far.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Kesler17

Did I say he wasn't? And so your saying he's telling the truth, if Luongo does that its him throwin his team under the bus. And Marty has to admit he messed up he didn't make the saves he needed to but instead he blames it on his team. Brodeur is a champion but his time is over in this tournament. Your clearly on the wrong side when you say that Brodeur is correct in saying that he wasn't at all fault. I just posted that statement because you said Marty is very humble.

Did you really just use the "I know you are but what am I" argument?

Yikes.

Here's a review for those who are too young to remember Brodeur's storied career: he has a reputation as a champion, a big-game performer--and yes, as a guy with humility over his career. One post-game comment doesn't change that.

Luongo has a reputation as a very good goaltender on a very good team, who sometimes blames external events for his own failings. He also has choked in a few big games, and hasn't established a reputation as a champion. Fair or not--that's the way it is. One post-game comment from Brodeur doesn't change that--how could it?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Kesler17

Is there sour taste in your mouth after cheering for Danny Heatley?

That's a tough one for me, as Heatley is also a Calgarian and the fact that he refused to go o the Edmonton Oilers sort of endears me to him in a weird sort of way. I disapprove ofsome of Heatley's decisions, and I'm not a fan of how he has carried himself, but there is a difference in that he seems not nearly as self-important, nor as willing to re-direct criticism as Luongo has. Heatley does not strike me in his interviews or his comments as conceited to the same degree as Roberto Luongo. But again, rightly or wrongly this is part of public perception and how that factors into how we form our opinions about public figures.

Originally Posted by Kesler17

Would there be sour taste cheering for Broduer if he was to play again after making those games after last game? I think not.

You honestly don't know. I'm also disappointed in what Brodeur said. In his case, this seems a little out of character, and that factors into my feelings about him as well.

Originally Posted by Kesler17

It just has to do with the fact he plays for the canucks...

Partly, but not entirely. I loved Trevor Linden, and I had no trouble cheering for him when he played in Nagano.

Originally Posted by Kesler17

...you put Luongo on the flames and there is no mention of anything that you have pointed out above.

Bullocks. I agree that I would be a bigger fan of Luongo if he played for the Calgary Flames, but I most certainly would understand and not begrudge anyone for their dislike of him for he reasons that I cited above. Dion Phaneuf comes across as arrogant, and many believe that he is prematurely conceited; a much as I like Dion Phaneuf, I most certainly understand the sentiment. The same goes for Luongo: He's not an easy guy to cheer for because of the team he plays for, because of his general attitude and public persona, and in large part also because of the fanbase and the Vancouver media's tendency to exaggerate the value of MANY of their players—Luongo included.

[Kesler17]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

You can spread the blame on a lot of canada players on that play. He could of played it better, but he also wasn't able to get back into position thanks to the bodies in his crease...bad communication, unfarmilair with goalies tendencies, who knows...bad play all around...the other 2 goals were redirects...so not sure if you can blame him for that

Ok let's see you saying the same thing if Luongo allows a goal where his D was at fault. Deal?

[Kesler17]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Did you really just use the "I know you are but what am I" argument?

Yikes.

Here's a review for those who are too young to remember Brodeur's storied career: he has a reputation as a champion, a big-game performer--and yes, as a guy with humility over his career. One post-game comment doesn't change that.

Luongo has a reputation as a very good goaltender on a very good team, who sometimes blames external events for his own failings. He also has choked in a few big games, and hasn't established a reputation as a champion. Fair or not--that's the way it is. One post-game comment from Brodeur doesn't change that--how could it?

You compared the two so i posted something from Marty because you claimed how he better of a person he is in comparison to Luongo Other than game 6 against Chicago what other big game did Luongo choke in? the game 5 vs ducks where he made 56 saves?

And I don't know if Marty has done this in the past cause I don't see his post game interviews very often, but I haven't seen Luongo be that unfair to his team.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Did you really just use the "I know you are but what am I" argument?

Yikes.

Here's a review for those who are too young to remember Brodeur's storied career: he has a reputation as a champion, a big-game performer--and yes, as a guy with humility over his career. One post-game comment doesn't change that.

Luongo has a reputation as a very good goaltender on a very good team, who sometimes blames external events for his own failings. He also has choked in a few big games, and hasn't established a reputation as a champion. Fair or not--that's the way it is. One post-game comment from Brodeur doesn't change that--how could it?

How could it? It just did. You can't argue that a guy is really humble when his most recent public comment, on likely the biggest stage of his career, is pretty much absolving himself of blame and pointing the finger at his teammates.

How does it work for you? Do you have to make 3 comments to lose the humble team guy tag? I'm not saying Luongo hasn't done the same thing, but it's a little out there to paint Brodeur with this good guy brush while tarring Luongo considering the circumstances.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

...Here's a review for those who are too young to remember Brodeur's storied career: he has a reputation as a champion, a big-game performer--and yes, as a guy with humility over his career. One post-game comment doesn't change that...

I think that this is an important point to make in this discussion. The comment by Brodeur was nothing short of baffling in large part because it was so out of character for a guy who has established a reputation through his entire career as the happy, humble competitor. It was a really wierd thing to hear him say, and because of his history I am driven to think that there is more to this than meets the eye. There is a big difference between this one, isolated incident, and the several instances in which Luongo has been happy to either talk about how great he is, how poor the team in front of him is, or those several occasions when he flops around on the ice like he's been shot by a sniper in the stands. It is called the "benefit of doubt" and one of the two goalies has earned it while the other has not. Rightly or wrongly, that just seems to be how the public outside of Vancouver sees things.

[Johnny Canuck]

Everyone starts off "inexperienced"" As I mentioned earlier, Before Brodeur won his first stanley cup, I guarantee he was questioned the same way. Luongo is more than capable of upping his game, and aside from one game "Game 6 chicago " Hes been terrific in high pressure situations.

If we were to go based solely on experience, i know alot of people would question Iginla. They would be more inclined to take a guy like Brad Richards who has won a conn smythe. Yea, Iginla is a great player, and i think he absolutely deserves to be there, but at the end of the day, the stats show he has a history of being on losing teams. (Aside from the one run, where he rode a hot goalie who is equally inexperienced) Hes consistently found himself unable to lead his team out of round one.

Both players will be just fine, and absolutely deserve to be playing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Kesler17

...Other than game 6 against Chicago what other big game did Luongo choke in?

Game 5 v. Chicago? What about games 3 and 4 v. Anaheim when Canucks wrested home ice advantage from the Ducks, and Luongo looked no better than average? And let us not forget what an unbelievable debacle that game six v. Chicago really was. The Canucks had two leads in the third period in an elimination game, and Luongo allowed four goals inside of 20 minutes! He allowed seven goals in an elimination game; that alone is an impressively embarrassing statistic.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by valo403

How could it? It just did. You can't argue that a guy is really humble when his most recent public comment, on likely the biggest stage of his career, is pretty much absolving himself of blame and pointing the finger at his teammates.

How does it work for you? Do you have to make 3 comments to lose the humble team guy tag? I'm not saying Luongo hasn't done the same thing, but it's a little out there to paint Brodeur with this good guy brush while tarring Luongo considering the circumstances.

Try to keep up.

Kesler17's argument (though he didn't realize it) was that Brodeur's comment makes Luongo a better person. Thus.... "how could it"?

Brodeur's comments may not have been perfect. But one comment can be misconstrued, misinterpreted, taken out of context, etc. I prefer to look at someone's overall track record. Going strictly on reputation, I give Brodeur a bit more leeway. Nevertheless, I didn't love his comments--though they were also, inarguably, true.

I will add that I think it's a bit unfair to "tar" Luongo. But he has to some extent brought that shorter leash upon himself, for reasons pretty well covered in an earlier post by Textcritic.

With that said, I do think it's time to give Luongo a chance to carry the mail in this tournament. I don't think anyone seriously disputes that.

[Kesler17]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Game 5 v. Chicago? What about games 3 and 4 v. Anaheim when Canucks wrested home ice advantage from the Ducks, and Luongo looked no better than average? And let us not forget what an unbelievable debacle that game six v. Chicago really was. The Canucks had two leads in the third period in an elimination game, and Luongo allowed four goals inside of 20 minutes! He allowed seven goals in an elimination game; that alone is an impressively embarrassing statistic.

We were just outmatched in that series versus the ducks and he was our best player, to say that he was the culprit in that series is mind boggling. But anyways I hope Luongo proves all you doubters wrong and gets us gold.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Here's a review for those who are too young to remember Brodeur's storied career: he has a reputation as a champion, a big-game performer--and yes, as a guy with humility over his career. One post-game comment doesn't change that.

Wasn't Brodeur the original "if I'm not number one, don't invite me" goaltender for an earlier Olympics?

And he really did choke in the final minutes of the playoffs last year. Big time.

Great career, fabled career even, but everyone has their warts if they've been around long enough.

Whatever you think, he should be the wily ole veteran, number three on the list, offering tips to the youngs guys, not the starter.

Cowperson

[Kesler17]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Try to keep up.

Kesler17's argument (though he didn't realize it) was that Brodeur's comment makes Luongo a better person. Thus.... "how could it"?

Brodeur's comments may not have been perfect. But one comment can be misconstrued, misinterpreted, taken out of context, etc. I prefer to look at someone's overall track record. Going strictly on reputation, I give Brodeur a bit more leeway. Nevertheless, I didn't love his comments--though they were also, inarguably, true.

I will add that I think it's a bit unfair to "tar" Luongo. But he has to some extent brought that shorter leash upon himself, for reasons pretty well covered in an earlier post by Textcritic.

With that said, I do think it's time to give Luongo a chance to carry the mail in this tournament. I don't think anyone seriously disputes that.

Way to ignore what I said, I never said it makes Luongo better but you were comparing the two. And your silly for thinking his comments were true. Yes Marty definitely did his job

[Infamous1]

The whole which goalie is a better person is ridiculous considering what Brodeur has done in his personal life.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Wasn't Brodeur the original "if I'm not number one, don't invite me" goaltender for an earlier Olympics?

And he really did choke in the final minutes of the playoffs last year. Big time.

Great career, fabled career even, but everyone has their warts if they've been around long enough.

Whatever you think, he should be the wily ole veteran, number three on the list, offering tips to the youngs guys, not the starter.

Cowperson

That was Roy in 2002...that is why Marty got the call, and Roy wasn't there...although i do agree at his age, Marty isn't at the same level he was...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Infamous1

The whole which goalie is a better person is ridiculous considering what Brodeur has done in his personal life.

Cheseburger buffets!!!!!!

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Game 5 v. Chicago? What about games 3 and 4 v. Anaheim when Canucks wrested home ice advantage from the Ducks, and Luongo looked no better than average? And let us not forget what an unbelievable debacle that game six v. Chicago really was. The Canucks had two leads in the third period in an elimination game, and Luongo allowed four goals inside of 20 minutes! He allowed seven goals in an elimination game; that alone is an impressively embarrassing statistic.

Yea, but if you are going to look at every poor game he has had, you have to look at every good game the guy has had also.

He stopped 72 shots, en route to a 5–4 quadruple overtime victory in his first ever playoff game. (one save shy of an nhl record)

Game 5 against Anaheim he put together 56 saves in a 2-1 loss.

"The final game of the 99 world juniors turned into the Roberto Luongo show. Canada was outshot 40-18, but Luongo's heroics forced overtime."

2003 World Championship Luongo made 49 saves against Sweden in a 3–2 overtime win to win gold.

2004 World Cup Roberto Luongo made 37-40 saves in an elimination game against the favoured Chezchs.


While he has yet to hoist the stanley cup, I'd say the guy has done enough (more success than not in high pressure games) to deserve the shot hes getting.