I don't know how you could have seen that coming though, those two are the best D-pairing in the NHL right now, their lack of performance at the Olympics is pretty shocking actually.
A lot of people saw that coming though. Not so much Keith struggling as he has at times, but everyone knew Seabrook was going only because Keith has carried his jock for a couple years now.
Klown took Seabrook because of "chemistry", but Babcock simply can't rely on Seabrook to do anything but open the gate at the bench. Add in the fact that Niedermayer has been declining for some time now, and Doughty is basically a rookie, and the management team handicapped our defence right from the start.
There was definitely more than one mistake. He made multiple mistakes, many of which cost Canada goals against them.
On the whole, I agree. But after the first, it was only that one mistake. If he had given up that third goal before the end of the first period (even accounting for the fact he was bumped), then I could see it.
But any coach would expect any world class goalie can rebound, and would give that goalie the chance. The arguments that Brodeur should have been pulled after the first is based entirely on hindsight, which the team does not have the benefit of during the game.
The Olympics is a short tournament with no room for error. After the second week goal you have to pull Brodeur and put in Luongo (no goals against). If that does not work, hello Mr. Fleury against the Germans. If one of those three guys does not step up and play like an Olympian - then we are pretty much *****d.
Easy to be a Monday morning coach, but Babcock just got outcoached by Ron Wilson.
Old Boys club has failed Canada again. When Kevin Lowe is part of player selection then you know your in trouble.
Still say the Pronger Needs experiment is the biggest screw up. Like the forwards other than Throrton and Marleau. I say put Heatley with some other line and sit other two. All I know is I would not bet money on San Jose in playoffs again this year. What a joke Throton is. He has no heart and Canada thing just does not register with him.
AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
A lot of people saw that coming though. Not so much Keith struggling as he has at times, but everyone knew Seabrook was going only because Keith has carried his jock for a couple years now.
Klown took Seabrook because of "chemistry", but Babcock simply can't rely on Seabrook to do anything but open the gate at the bench. Add in the fact that Niedermayer has been declining for some time now, and Doughty is basically a rookie, and the management team handicapped our defence right from the start.
I don't really agree with this. To me, it was stupid of Babcock to stop playing those two together. Seabrook would have made every other team in this tournament with ease, and some of the other team's defences have looked really good even with guys like Marcus Johansson.
I have no problem with the choices, but rather with the way Babcock keeps shuffling players around like a mad scientist rather than encouraging the team to gel as a cohesive group.
To me, it's like two different ideas are at play: the choices for the team made on existing chemistry, proven results, and then the coaching that is all over the map.
Might as well ask the question of why guys like Morrow and Bergeron are on the team as well.
I have seen Morrow throw a couple of hits, but doesn't create anything else. Bergeron still boggles me as he has done little to nothing since the tournament began.
__________________ "There are probably some things I could do to keep my flexibility up, but I'd rather smoke, drink Diet Cokes and eat."- John Daly
Playing the wrong goalie... sorry to Brodeur who is the best of all time stats-wise, and even though he is great, he might not be the best we have available. LOUUU. End of discussion. I have more faith in Luongo than Brodeur.
Riding the SJS line during the SUI game. They weren't getting the job done, and by the time Babcock put the "grinders" on the ice, it was too late for anything to actually happen.
Neidermayer and Pronger, and Doughty for that matter- being on the team itself is disgusting. I'd rather have J-Bouw, and Phaneuf over those guys. Yes I know Neids is the captain, and Pronger is a tough SOB to play against. But really? Not this tournament.
On that note, who is leading this team? I know it's hard to have a leader when everyone is a leader on their other teams... but this team lacks a leader. Neids is not the kind of leader this team needs. Need more than Neids, ha! I don't think Iggy could do it either, and Pronger wearing the A makes me barf in my mouth. Crosby, frankly, should be the captain, and he needs to get his ass in gear to prove it for the next Olympics.
Thonton- what a floater. I know he has the most assists in the league, but why? I don't understand how he gets the job done- I only see a big man getting knocked off the puck, not playing physical, and passing passing passing. PP needs to shoot sometime, and that won't happen with SJS guys on the ice.
Babcock has turned this Canadian team into a one-trick pony. Yzerman left a few notable guys off the team that should be there IMO (Richards, no. Lecavalier or Stamkos yes).
Anyway, that's enough ranting about something that isn't even that important. Go Canada, but I won't be surprised if we don't win against Russia.
I get that Broduer didnt play well. Thats clear, he would be the first to admit it. But how do you pull him if your Babcock? You would be pulling the greatest goalie of all time.
So im sure they figured he would regain his usual brilliant play. Sadly it did not happen. Now mabye Luongo wouldnt have let in the particular goals that Marty did, but whos to say he wouldnt have let in different ones? Afterall what has Luongo done in his career to suggest that he is a better goalie than Broduer or Fleury? Which big games has "Lou" won?
I honestly think that Marc Andre Fleury would be a more efficent answer than Luongo. Fleury has played in big games with meaning and has come out a champion. Luongo has not. A shut out against Norway is hardly the telling factor of goaltending ability.
Old Boys club has failed Canada again. When Kevin Lowe is part of player selection then you know your in trouble.
Still say the Pronger Needs experiment is the biggest screw up. Like the forwards other than Throrton and Marleau. I say put Heatley with some other line and sit other two. All I know is I would not bet money on San Jose in playoffs again this year. What a joke Throton is. He has no heart and Canada thing just does not register with him.
My thoughts exactly. How can you put probably the wrost man at building a team in the last 5 years in charge of something like this? Canada should have taken the GM's of the 4 teams that have made the playoffs the past 5 years (CGY, NJ, DET, SJ) to build this team.
Holland makes sense to be up there with Stevie. Hitchcock and Lowe? uhhhh no
Afterall what has Luongo done in his career to suggest that he is a better goalie than Broduer or Fleury? Which big games has "Lou" won?
I'm not the biggest Luongo fan, but he was great in the 04 World Cup semi finals against the Czechs. And his 07 series against the Stars, especially game 7, was very good. The fact is, any competent butterfly goalie would have stopped at least 3 of the goals against the US. Brodeur was being beat down low and was flopping around on most of those goals. I'd take Brodeur over Luongo in most cases, but you can't sit and hope that Marty can get out of this funk when you're in an elimination round.
I get that Broduer didnt play well. Thats clear, he would be the first to admit it. But how do you pull him if your Babcock? You would be pulling the greatest goalie of all time.
So im sure they figured he would regain his usual brilliant play. Sadly it did not happen. Now mabye Luongo wouldnt have let in the particular goals that Marty did, but whos to say he wouldnt have let in different ones? Afterall what has Luongo done in his career to suggest that he is a better goalie than Broduer or Fleury? Which big games has "Lou" won?
I honestly think that Marc Andre Fleury would be a more efficent answer than Luongo. Fleury has played in big games with meaning and has come out a champion. Luongo has not. A shut out against Norway is hardly the telling factor of goaltending ability.
Luongo has proven to be one of the most consistent and reliable goaltenders over the last decade and has continued that this year. Brodeur was that, but he's had problems this year and Fleury has been pretty awful.
This whole "big game" theory is a bunch of hogwash. This is a short tournament and you need the guy who is playing best right now and that is clearly Luongo. Had Lundqvist and Nittymaki won "big games" before 2006? No, but they were fighting it out for the gold medal. In fact, how many goalies in the tournament have met your standard?
Other than Fleury, not one cup finalist since the lockout is in the tournament. I guess someone better tell the US that Miller's not clutch enough; Russia better get rid of Nabokov and Bryzgalov, they've never won the big games; Henrik Lundqvist, sorry hasn't been clutch enough; Vokoun hasn't either.
Also, just to put Fleury's clutch goaltending in perspective, here are the playoff stats of the last several cup winners in the year they won the cup:
You simply do not pull a goalie like Brodeur over one mistake.
That is about the single dumbest thing a coach could do.
I agree!! Canadians are only down by 1 after the 2nd period so it doesn't make sense to pull a goalie like Brodeur off. It's so easy to say he could have been pulled after the game but during the game I think it was the right call. You don't pull a goalie after the 2nd goal no matter how bad it looks especially when the game is only 2-1 at that time.
I agree!! Canadians are only down by 1 after the 2nd period so it doesn't make sense to pull a goalie like Brodeur off. It's so easy to say he could have been pulled after the game but during the game I think it was the right call. You don't pull a goalie after the 2nd goal no matter how bad it looks especially when the game is only 2-1 at that time.
Especially in a non elimination game. Brodeur earned the right to be given his shot to play the whole game and turn it around.
Still, he didn't play well and I'm not surprised that they're likely going with Luongo against Germany.
Fleury has played in big games with meaning and has come out a champion.
__________________ "I think the eye test is still good, but analytics can sure give you confirmation: what you see...is that what you really believe?" Scotty Bowman, 0 NHL games played
I'm not sure why people are criticizing Doughty. Other than one glaring mistake against the Swiss, he's been better than Pronger, Niedermayer, Seabrook and Boyle.
He hasn't been spectacular, but he's been really solid, and he's played well in all situations.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to shadetree For This Useful Post:
I feel for the Canadian Olympic management, leave anybody out and you get pilloried, but the team that wins needs to be a balance of stars and journeymen to feed them.
They have the same problem Canadian NHL teams suffer from, the fear of losing overwhelms everything else.
I'm not sure why people are criticizing Doughty. Other than one glaring mistake against the Swiss, he's been better than Pronger, Niedermayer, Seabrook and Boyle.
He hasn't been spectacular, but he's been really solid, and he's played well in all situations.
I agree. I wasn't too happy when he wwas selected initially, but for a kid I think has has aquitted himself well so far, and has done something none of the others have seemed to: improve as the tourney has progressed.
I think they should take a page from the WJCs and always bring a young up and coming player to help them get their feet wet. Stamkos up front and Doughty on d seems reasonable. Ditto MA Fleury.
I was always nervous with Kevin Lowe at the helm. He has proven he is absolutely no talent for player performance, as evidenced by the contracts he has handed out.
On that note, who is leading this team? I know it's hard to have a leader when everyone is a leader on their other teams... but this team lacks a leader. Neids is not the kind of leader this team needs. Need more than Neids, ha! I don't think Iggy could do it either, and Pronger wearing the A makes me barf in my mouth. Crosby, frankly, should be the captain, and he needs to get his ass in gear to prove it for the next Olympics.
I think Yzerman, Babcock et al want Crosby to be the leader, but he has not been able to take that role on. My guess is that the "old guard" is hesitant to take charge, since everyone wants Crosby to be the leader...
