Bloom Box

[GreatWhiteEbola]

As seen on 60 minutes.

http://www.bloomenergy.com/

http://www.bloomenergy.com/besolution.php

Will it be the solution? Cheap plentiful energy? More to come on Wednesday.

Same venture capitalist brought you Google, Netscape, and Amazon. As well as, the Segway.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Using fuel cell technology. Oxygen + Fuel + Catalyst = Electricity.

The fuel can be, natural gas, bio-gas, etc.

The Bloom cell is intended to make the technology cheap and accessable. Others have been working on the same technology. Bloom is going the "hype it" route.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by fotze

will the energy come from lame cliches?

pro athlete interviews could be a source of endless power for the world!

[photon]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6221135.shtml

A little more info, just going to read it.

Though it's just a fuel cell, not magic.

[photon]

Interesting, the important part seems to be that they've found a more affordable catalyst.

Might be interesting, especially for us up around here with lots of natural gas kicking around. I wonder how much gas would be used; if the current natural gas infrastructure could handle one of these in every house.

[BlackArcher101]

I bet the catalyst is spam/prem/spork.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by photon

Interesting, the important part seems to be that they've found a more affordable catalyst.

Might be interesting, especially for us up around here with lots of natural gas kicking around. I wonder how much gas would be used; if the current natural gas infrastructure could handle one of these in every house.

About half of what is used for our current purposes. One of these could be placed next the hot water heater. The issue here is that, once we have more energy, we will use more energy. We need to learn to conserve.

[photon]

What do you mean half of what is used for our current purposes? I'm not talking about how efficient this is vs. burning natural gas and a turbine in order to get the electricity, I mean if every home had this rather than being wired up for electricity, how much more natural gas would this require to be piped to houses vs how much is piped to houses now. How many cf for 1kW or whatever.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by photon

What do you mean half of what is used for our current purposes? I'm not talking about how efficient this is vs. burning natural gas and a turbine in order to get the electricity, I mean if every home had this rather than being wired up for electricity, how much more natural gas would this require to be piped to houses vs how much is piped to houses now. How many cf for 1kW or whatever.

If we changed to electrically driven systems in the home, heating, cooling, etc. The existing infrastructure might be able to handle the load. If the Bloom Box is used, in addition to the current NG commitments in the home, who knows.

The details where not very clear, to produce the same power conventionally, half the amount of NG will be used by the Bloom Energy system. I don't know much more than that. I am just going off the 60 Minutes interview.

Most likely, if this were to be successful, the utility companies would buy the stacks for a neighbourhood and distribute to the homes. Ideally, we would have one in every home, doubt that would happen. Unless, he is accurate with his $3000 estimate for a unit.

An analyst was asked about the likelihood of these units being your home, he said; "About 20%, but it will say GE on it". Eluding to the fact that companies with more research dollars have invested in this technology and hold fuel cell patents.

Many unanswered questions.

[Azure]

The secret isn't to get these into every single household right now, rather the big companies with huge electricity costs should start using them in order to help bring down the cost and provide good feedback.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

Others have been working on the same technology.

Right here in Calgary, as a matter of fact..

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Right here in Calgary, as a matter of fact..

Who would that be?

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

Who would that be?

Versa Power

[photon]

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articl...questions-are/

Interesting bit, and even more interesting comments.. I liked this one lol:

Back of the envelope cost calculations for what Bloom says is required for a U.S. household:
Each “Stack” seems to be about 27 plates
Each Plate = 1 light-bulb (60 watt? 100watt?)
2 stacks or 54 plates = 1 U.S. home
1 U.S. Home = projected $3k cost
Each U.S. 2x stack (if 60w/plate) = 3240w
Each U.S. 2x stack (if 100w/plate) = 5400w
1 100kw Bloombox cost = $7-800k (we’ll use $750k)
Current cost for 3240w home system using 100kw price = $24,300 (not $3k)
Current cost for 5400w home system using 100kw price = $40,500 (not $3k)
These costs seem inline with other fuel cell costs on the market (Panasonic, Clearedge) none of which are remotely viable… Which leads me to continue to believe Bloom is nothing more than a hype job to allow current VC and sucker investors to exit…
Beware of new technology that fails to provide cost calculations. There is only one reason they do not—because the actual calculations will show they don’t have a viable product from a cost perspective

[Mark]

When they are already powering large buildings owned by Google, eBay, Staples, FedEx, etc, it's hard to not get optimistic since it is already implemented.

[photon]

These kind of fuel cells were already available before Bloom started up the hype machine, so that some companies are using them doesn't mean much IMO.

The devil is in the details, if there is a real advance in efficiency, and if the costs can be brought down, and if the fuel sources can stay at the prices they are at, then it might be interesting. But if everyone starts using these and natural gas goes from $4 to $20 then the cost/benefit doesn't look so good anymore.

[Azure]

Yeah, but it'd be pretty cool if natural gas were at $20.

Alberta would be....doing better.

[photon]

Yeah $20 natural gas!! Woo! We won't waste it this time, promise.

[Stumptown]

Another discussion that I found cautiously optimistic, coming from a renowned skeptic: http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1648

I bet the big businesses using them treat them like a UPS. When a big plant loses power from the grid, they can still keep working and making money. And as someone who lives off the grid from time to time, I'd be into a $3000 unit to keep the beer cold at my cabin. But like the article says, I'd still have to get NG to my cabin, and that's not easy. Wonder if it runs on propane?

[Azure]

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/24/doe...gy-google-ipo/

Some more information there.

You darn rights I want $20 natural gas. Just for a year. We'll use the excessive revenues to pay all Albertans their cost and laugh all the way to the bank with the rest of the money.