Olympic PGT - CAN 3 - SUI 2 SO

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Sharks line was the only line that was consistently dangerous out there. I have no problems with them getting the ice time. However Team Canada got out coached by the Swiss. With the talent discrepancy between the two teams there is no way the game should have gone past regulation. Babcock looked like a rookie coach out there juggling lines and benching players.

See I think he is overcoaching this team right now. Throwing Bergeron out there for faceoffs and then pulling him off the ice, panicking and splitting up proven d-pairings, and benching proven veterans such as Iginla.

He is coaching like its game 7 of the finals...yet this team has not had the chance to develop the chemistry that a team like that would have. He is micro-managing the talent and not letting it naturally develop.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

See I think he is overcoaching this team right now. Throwing Bergeron out there for faceoffs and then pulling him off the ice, panicking and splitting up proven d-pairings, and benching proven veterans such as Iginla.

He is coaching like its game 7 of the finals...yet this team has not had the chance to develop the chemistry that a team like that would have. He is micro-managing the talent and not letting it naturally develop.

Overcoaching is what I wanted to say too.

Babcock is trying to win this game from behind the bench instead of letting the players win it on the ice.

I honestly don't get it. He pulled Iginla off the Crosby line, fine, for whatever reason.

So he puts Iginla, Richards and Morrow together and they have one HELL of a shift and bang, none of them see the ice again? What the???

If he keeps pulling crap like that and benching players for whatever reason he is a moron and I don't give a crap if he's won at every single level. Send him home and let Lindy Ruff run the bench.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calgARI

Coaching staff needs to realize that this is not an 82-game season. They do not have much time to generate the right combinations and chemistry. That is why taking Iginla off the Crosby line is so stupid. You have to stick with positive early results and build chemistry as fast as you possibly can. That was butchered tonight and there is one game left in the preliminary round now. Lack of chemistry and cohesion is what killed the team in 06 and made their offense completely ineffective.

I echo this sentiment, quite frankly 2 goals from the group of players on the ice tonight considering the talent discrepancy is absolutely unacceptable.

That surrendered point could be costly. Strange things happen in short tournaments.

[d_phaneuf]

I do think one problem might be that Babcock might feel pigeonholed in to certain combos, like the Getzlaf line isn't working. Yet he seems hesitant to split them up.

Or I wouldn't mind seeing Nash with Heatley and Thornton etc.

I think if things don't go well in the 1st period against the US it may be time to break up those team specific combos

[arloiginla]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I do think one problem might be that Babcock might feel pigeonholed in to certain combos, like the Getzlaf line isn't working. Yet he seems hesitant to split them up.

Or I wouldn't mind seeing Nash with Heatley and Thornton etc.

I think if things don't go well in the 1st period against the US it may be time to break up those team specific combos

Then that's poor coaching too. He's loathe to split Getzlaf and Perry up but has no problem splitting Crosby and Iginla up.

In a short tournament, you don't go with what worked in the NHL, or what worked in past years. You go with what's working at the moment.

[Ark2]

After thinking about it, I believe that Bergeron keeps being put on the top line because management have identified him as the guy who can shut down Ovechkin, much like Zetterberg was used to shutdown Crosby during the SCF last season. Of course, for him to be effective in this position, he would have to have a fair bit of ice time, hence him continually being given a spot on the top line. I suppose the idea behind this is that Crosby and Nash would provide the necessary offense, and Bergeron would keep Ovechkin (or whomever the other team's top sniper may be) in check.

Unfortuneately, Iginla doesn't seem to have a place on this team. They are sold on the Sharks line, and Perry and Getzlaf seem to get a free pass because they play together on the Ducks, so the only guy that Iggy can beat out is Staal, but since they've got Staal playing left wing, and Iggy is right wing, he's unlikely to do that either. The fourth line barely plays and hence, Iginla gets shafted on ice time.

Really what bothers me about this is that Canada seems to be the only team that is specifically altering their roster for match-ups that have not happened (nor may they ever). You don't see Russia putting some fringe player in their top six because he has a decent two-way game. Every other team has put their best players out there and show confidence in their players and their abilities in letting them go out there and do what they have to do. If Canada is going to win the Gold, they will win because they have the best players, not because they have the best coaching staff, and this is something that Babcock needs to understand.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

Then that's poor coaching too. He's loathe to split Getzlaf and Perry up but has no problem splitting Crosby and Iginla up.

In a short tournament, you don't go with what worked in the NHL, or what worked in past years. You go with what's working at the moment.

Bergeron was chosen specifically because of what worked 5+ years ago. It's pretty clear the philosophy this Olympics was chemistry, which isn't a bad idea. That being said, it's strange they chose Seabrook to be on this team to play him with Keith when all they do is let him set on the bench for the entire game.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I do think one problem might be that Babcock might feel pigeonholed in to certain combos, like the Getzlaf line isn't working. Yet he seems hesitant to split them up.

Or I wouldn't mind seeing Nash with Heatley and Thornton etc.

I think if things don't go well in the 1st period against the US it may be time to break up those team specific combos

So he won't split up the team specific combos like the Getzlaf/Perry combo despite it not working, but he's more than eager to take Iginla and Richards and basically play them anywhere he pleases, and when they respond he benches them?

Like what the frack man.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Bergeron was chosen specifically because of what worked 5+ years ago. It's pretty clear the philosophy this Olympics was chemistry, which isn't a bad idea. That being said, it's strange they chose Seabrook to be on this team to play him with Keith when all they do is let him set on the bench for the entire game.

Well Seabrook/Keith together wasn't working out very well. So they had to bench him.

Which brings us back to the Bouwmeester question. Would he be more effective than Seabrook?

[looooob]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Bergeron was chosen specifically because of what worked 5+ years ago. It's pretty clear the philosophy this Olympics was chemistry, which isn't a bad idea. That being said, it's strange they chose Seabrook to be on this team to play him with Keith when all they do is let him set on the bench for the entire game.

well it is a bad idea to base it on chemistry from a teenage tourney 5 years ago. frick bring Langkow and try and repatriate Dominichelli and roll them and Iginla 1996 style if its world junior chemistry you want

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ark2

After thinking about it, I believe that Bergeron keeps being put on the top line because management have identified him as the guy who can shut down Ovechkin, much like Zetterberg was used to shutdown Crosby during the SCF last season. Of course, for him to be effective in this position, he would have to have a fair bit of ice time, hence him continually being given a spot on the top line. I suppose the idea behind this is that Crosby and Nash would provide the necessary offense, and Bergeron would keep Ovechkin (or whomever the other team's top sniper may be) in check.

Unfortuneately, Iginla doesn't seem to have a place on this team. They are sold on the Sharks line, and Perry and Getzlaf seem to get a free pass because they play together on the Ducks, so the only guy that Iggy can beat out is Staal, but since they've got Staal playing left wing, and Iggy is right wing, he's unlikely to do that either. The fourth line barely plays and hence, Iginla gets shafted on ice time.

Really what bothers me about this is that Canada seems to be the only team that is specifically altering their roster for match-ups that have not happened (nor may they ever). You don't see Russia putting some fringe player in their top six because he has a decent two-way game. Every other team has put their best players out there and show confidence in their players and their abilities in letting them go out there and do what they have to do. If Canada is going to win the Gold, they will win because they have the best players, not because they have the best coaching staff, and this is something that Babcock needs to understand.

If that is actually the reason than I'm cheering for Finland for sure.

Bergeron will shut down Ovechkin? Who will shut down the other 2 guys on his line then?

Plain and simple Babcock is micro-managing this team thinking he can win the game from behind the bench and not out on the ice.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by looooob

well it is a bad idea to base it on chemistry from a teenage tourney 5 years ago. frick bring Langkow and try and repatriate Dominichelli and roll them and Iginla 1996 style if its world junior chemistry you want

Better yet get Conroy some Canadian citizenship and bring back Dean Mcammond. Put them with Iginla and you have your 50 goal man.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well Seabrook/Keith together wasn't working out very well. So they had to bench him.

Which brings us back to the Bouwmeester question. Would he be more effective than Seabrook?

Or Doughty?

Quite frankly, Team Canada's management made pre-existing chemistry their #1 priority, chemistry above all else.

Well, they took the safe route, but what happens now if it just isnt there? They took questionable picks in favour of that chemistry.

If that chemistry doesnt materialize, then what?

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Azure

So he won't split up the team specific combos like the Getzlaf/Perry combo despite it not working, but he's more than eager to take Iginla and Richards and basically play them anywhere he pleases, and when they respond he benches them?

Like what the frack man.

thats the point

I think he should start with a blank slate, not keep certain combos together because it limits everything else you can do

if you are going to juggle lines (when none are really clicking), juggle all of them

[Racki]

Give me Green and Bouwmeester over Seabrook and Keith anyday. I thought that pairing was overrated from day one. They were fanshionable at the time because everyone is in love with the Blackhawks. Also, niedermayer is fifty years old and looks it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

thats the point

I think he should start with a blank slate, not keep certain combos together because it limits everything else you can do

if you are going to juggle lines (when none are really clicking), juggle all of them

They cant.

They've sacrificed a lot on the altar of chemistry.

They'd sell their souls for Getzlaf to play but it means taking Perry, they gave one of their nuts for Duncan Keith, but Seabrook has to tag along, the San Jose line has been playing well, but then you gotta take Staypuft.

If it doesnt work, then they're far, far worse off than 06, supplemented only by superior talent.

The downside is that they've excluded some of the more skilled and more productive players on the assumption that the familiarity will compensate for it.

Its not an entirely unreasonable plan, but at the same time it carries its own series of risks.

They've rolled a pretty big pair of dice.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Locke

They cant.

They've sacrificed a lot on the altar of chemistry.

They'd sell their souls for Getzlaf to play but it means taking Perry, they gave one of their nuts for Duncan Keith, but Seabrook has to tag along, the San Jose line has been playing well, but then you gotta take Staypuft.

If it doesnt work, then they're far, far worse off than 06, supplemented only by superior talent.

The downside is that they've excluded some of the more skilled and more productive players on the assumption that the familiarity will compensate for it.

Its not an entirely unreasonable plan, but at the same time it carries its own series of risks.

They've rolled a pretty big pair of dice.

What were the real gambles though? You've got Bergeron, Morrow, Perry, Doughty, Seabrook maybe Staal, but everyone else was pretty much a lock. If Canada doesn't take gold, it will be because their coaching staff thinks that they are the stars of these games, not because of these few gambles.

[MelBridgeman]

fire babcock

[Phaneuf3]

Babcock's a clown and has no business being anywhere near this team.

[zamler]

Obviously Babcock thinks he's coaching an NHL team and needs to ride his best players. Of course every player chosen for Team Canada is supposed to be a "best player". I honestly thought more of the guy before tonight, and I never liked him.