Womens Hockey: How Much Time Left?

[Bunk]

If domination by one or two countries in a sport was a criteria, luge would be long gone.

In men's singles, Germany has won 22 out of 42 total medals - only 4 other countries have ever won medals (Russia/USSR, Italy, Austria, Latvia)

In women's singles, Germany has won 29 out of 42 total medals - only 3 other countries have ever won medals (Russia/USSR, Italy, Austria)

Time to get rid of luge? Many sports in the winter games have traditionally been dominated by only a couple of countries, such is the nature of the winter games. If that was the criteria, would there be a winter games at all?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flambers

Okay will look it up (when I get home tonight)....

Another factor....Men's hockey is a tough one to use as a comparision as the North American teams were using minor leaguers while the Russians used the Red Army.

However Women's hockey is not in the same situation.

Just saw this...and from page 1.

In 1920 canada defeated the Czechs 15-0, and the Swedes, 12-1.

In 1924 Canada defeated the Czechs 30-0, the Swedes 22-0, and the Swiss 33-0.

in 1928 Canada defeated Sweden 11-0, Great Britain 14-0, and the Swiss 13-0.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

It's not about fairness and patience. It's about money. It always is. And if women's hockey doesn't draw an audience, why keep it around?

Everyone seems to agree the overall product is terrible, and if it doesn't dramatically improve in a relatively (relative to the men's hockey example) short period of time, it will be replaced with something which will draw an audience. Pick a sport from the X-games.

From a North American perspective this would be too bad, but such is life.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So are the womesn teams, but much like the Soviet competition during their run, they are just better than everyone else, and no it really wasnt very competitive. Just like with womens hockey now, somebody had to win Silver and Bronze...thats how dominant they were back then.

That's simply not true. I don't know how old you are, but my family forced me to watch figure skating in the 70's, and it was definitely competitive - the Soviets were a little bit better, but it was a fierce competition, especially with the Yanks and the Cold War overlay. The women's hockey is like running Pee-Wees against Midgets...
And again, who cares about men's hockey in 1932 - back then the Winter Olympics were a little white mens' club for 10-20 countries with only a handful of sports - they didn't have to worrry about pleasing a diverse group of 150 members, or TV audiences for that matter.

[transplant99]

That's simply not true. I don't know how old you are, but my family forced me to watch figure skating in the 70's, and it was definitely competitive - the Soviets were a little bit better, but it was a fierce competition, especially with the Yanks and the Cold War overlay.

Older than you i am sure.

results from the 1968 to 1980 pairs skating...


Soviets 7 medals
Germany 5 medals

Rest of the world...zero medals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...figure_skating

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Older than you i am sure.

results from the 1968 to 1980 pairs skating...


Soviets 7 medals
Germany 5 medals

Rest of the world...zero medals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...figure_skating

So what? Who cares? It's not like there was only one country with competent figure skaters. The pairs finishing 6th were still good compared to the gold-medal winners. The Americans were still good, so were the French, the Brits, the Canadians, whoever... I don't know if you are purposefully ignoring the facts or what. Just like with luge - just because the Germans always win, doesn't mean everyone else sucks - it's still a competition. In women's hockey, everyone else does suck, and there is no competition.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Just like with luge - just because the Germans always win, doesn't mean everyone else sucks - it's still a competition. In women's hockey, everyone else does suck, and there is no competition.

Preach on brother Vlad .....

[transplant99]

So what? Who cares?

it proves the false theory that there was "close" competition back then which goes to the heart of the whole damn discussion...if you dont like it, drop out.

The pairs finishing 6th were still good compared to the gold-medal winners

Ugh...OK. Different set of standards I guess for you. They werent as good...just werent. Much like womens hockey and Canada vs the rest of em, there was the Soviet pairs and then everyone else.

In women's hockey, everyone else does suck, and there is no competition.

2006 Torino silver medalists, Sweden. Bronze, USA.

I agree canada rules the roost...in fact it may be getting further apart, but that doesnt mean you dismantle the sport from the Olys because of it.

There have been 12 Womens world championships, all won by either the USA or canada. At one time however, Canada won the first 8 of them. But with time the USA got better and has won 3 of the last 4. Funny how that works.

Sweden, Finland, Russia, China,and Switzerland have all medalled or finished 4th. They will get better, but time is essential.

[Flash Walken]

Should they have taken basketball out of the summer olympics because the dream team could score 300 points without taking a sub?

Or should they have allowed those beatings to continue, knowing all the while that the teams getting beat were developing their games. Including Canada.

Why pull only women's hockey? What will you replace it with?

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

They will get better, but time is essential.

I'll be long dead by then ... and I'm only in my 40's!!

But like I said before, for me it is about the entertainment value, of which there is none ... and I'm not sure even if it was competitive that there would be enough entertainment, talent and skill wise, to get me to watch it.
Someone mentioned womens softball .... that is a sport I hope comes back ... I watched it and was entertained by it.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Why pull only women's hockey? What will you replace it with?

Womens ski jumping, at least give it a chance ... it can't be less competitive than women's hockey.

[afc wimbledon]

If you want competition you have to go back to the old days when all atheletes have to hold down a 'regular job' and the sport is really amateur, otherwise, in the winter olympics especially, sports will always to a large degree dominated by small numbers of countries.

Having grown up in the UK I have always felt the winter olympics were a bit pointless really. Most of the world, even in cold countries that do well in them, don't care about them, soccer being the real obsession in Austria Germany etc.

[Flash Walken]

Gene "Not So Mean" Principe just informed me that this is the first time China is showing Olympic hockey live, and that while 6 million Canadians watched the opening men's hockey game, 20 million watched in China.

We are all looking at this from the perspective of Canadians.

Is there anything that says a nation actively does not want women's hockey?

Has anyone asked Finland if they don't want womens hockey in the Olympics?

Where is Kipru when you need him?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

Womens ski jumping, at least give it a chance ... it can't be less competitive than women's hockey.

why does one have to replace another?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by troutman

Clearly the answer is for us to impregnate as many women as possible in Sweden, Finland, Russia, China etc - they need our superior Canadian ice hockey genes.

Plus... some people around here clearly just need to get laid. So this really serves both sides of the fence.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

it proves the false theory that there was "close" competition back then which goes to the heart of the whole damn discussion...if you dont like it, drop out.



Ugh...OK. Different set of standards I guess for you. They werent as good...just werent. Much like womens hockey and Canada vs the rest of em, there was the Soviet pairs and then everyone else.



2006 Torino silver medalists, Sweden. Bronze, USA.

I agree canada rules the roost...in fact it may be getting further apart, but that doesnt mean you dismantle the sport from the Olys because of it.

There have been 12 Womens world championships, all won by either the USA or canada. At one time however, Canada won the first 8 of them. But with time the USA got better and has won 3 of the last 4. Funny how that works.

Sweden, Finland, Russia, China,and Switzerland have all medalled or finished 4th. They will get better, but time is essential.

You're really missing the point that Vlad was making. With figure skating and luge etc. there have still been other nations that had the ability to compete. Their odds of winning weren't good, but they didn't look out of place out there. That's simply not the case with women's hockey right now. Although I will admit that the fact hockey involves direct competition, instead of scores or times, can make the gap more glaring.

That said, I agree that time will be needed to allow the womens game to develop, and that time becomes exponentially longer if the exposure the Olympics grants isn't there.

[Red_Baron]

With Luge it's not like the German that won beat the silver medalist by a full minute. Besides, the favorite can crash or bump a wall and blow their run whereas a momentary mistake in a hockey game isn't going to cost you 10 goals.

There definitely is a problem as there really wasn't that many girls playing hockey 20 years ago, I had one girl on my team in Atoms and we had a girl as one of our 2 goaltenders in Midget. I believe she was the only girl in Okanagan Mainline AA Midget the year she played for us and was the only female participant in the Midget B challenge cup at the provincial level.
There is now a much higher number of girls that play in Canada and their skill level is increasing rapidly. Hockey in Canada was not in its infancy when the Canadian men's team were winning by big scores, women's hockey is still somewhat in its infancy (even in Canada) and we are already winning by big scores, the problem is likely to get worse for a while yet before it gets better.

[Mike Vernon]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

With Luge it's not like the German that won beat the silver medalist by a full minute. Besides, the favorite can crash or bump a wall and blow their run whereas a momentary mistake in a hockey game isn't going to cost you 10 goals.

There definitely is a problem as there really wasn't that many girls playing hockey 20 years ago, I had one girl on my team in Atoms and we had a girl as one of our 2 goaltenders in Midget. I believe she was the only girl in Okanagan Mainline AA Midget the year she played for us and was the only female participant in the Midget B challenge cup at the provincial level.
There is now a much higher number of girls that play in Canada and their skill level is increasing rapidly. Hockey in Canada was not in its infancy when the Canadian men's team were winning by big scores, women's hockey is still somewhat in its infancy (even in Canada) and we are already winning by big scores, the problem is likely to get worse for a while yet before it gets better.

I completely disagree with you Baron, Im watching the Finish girls play the Americans right now and they have talent and skill but unlike the Americans and Canadian girls they are much younger and smaller. In the years to come I can see some good games as the skill level evens out. The Pioneer girls for Canada will retire, it will be interesting to see what country the next girl superstar player comes from, who knows she might not be from North America.

Does anyone know what kind of body contact is acceptable with the girl hockey? I cant think of another contact team sport that girls play?

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by troutman

Clearly the answer is for us to impregnate as many women as possible in Sweden, Finland, Russia, China etc - they need our superior Canadian ice hockey genes.

I have decided to command this noble battle on the Australian front! Who's with me?

[Resolute 14]

Description of the I Winter Olympic Games:

There was little doubt the two North American teams would decide the gold and silver medals, but before this ultimate showdown a series of round robin games were scheduled. In the preliminary round, Canada produced three of the most lop-sided results in international hockey history, defeating Czechoslovakia, 30-0, Sweden, 22-0, and Switzerland, 33-0. Harry Watson proved a scoring sensation in a way that has never and will enver be replicated. He scored eleven times against the Czechs, six times against the Swedes and thirteen times against the Swiss. Given that all games were three periods of fifteen minutes (fourty-five total minutes compared to sixty minutes of the modern game), his exploits are all the more extraordinary.

Canada continued its domination in the playoff round robin, beating Great Britain, 19-2, and setting up a gold medal game against the Americans who had won their first three games by an aggregate of 52-0.

Canada won that gold medal game 6-1.

This is how bad the first Winter Olympics (2nd Olympic Hockey tournament) was for competitiveness:

Group A                  Group B
CAN 30 - 0 TCH           USA 19 - 0 BEL
SWE  9 - 0 SUI           GBR 15 - 2 FRA
CAN 22 - 0 SWE           GBR 19 - 3 BEL
CAN 33 - 0 SUI           USA 22 - 0 FRA
SWE  9 - 3 TCH           FRA  7 - 5 BEL
TCH 11 - 0 SUI           USA 11 - 0 GBR

Medal Round
CAN 22 - 0 SWE (carry over from Group A)
USA 11 - 0 GBR (carry over from Group B)
CAN 19 - 2 GBR
USA 20 - 0 SWE
GBR  4 - 3 SWE
CAN  6 - 1 USA