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Old 09-03-2005, 02:53 AM   #1
flash11
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Listen to the mayor's demand for national leaders to 'get off their asses'
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Old 09-03-2005, 08:45 AM   #2
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Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

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Old 09-03-2005, 10:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson
Does that really matter?

I think it's more important what he's saying now:


"HELP!!!"

Let's hope he gets it, and quick. Or maybe Dubyah needs to get back to the ranch.

I'm probabley opening a big can of worms here... but I think the reason most people don't care too much about this tragedy is because most of the people's faces we see suffering on the TV screen are black.
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson
Considering the circumstances what would have been a better plan?

"Pray!"
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoulOfTheFlame+Sep 3 2005, 10:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SoulOfTheFlame @ Sep 3 2005, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson
Does that really matter?

I think it's more important what he's saying now:


"HELP!!!"

Let's hope he gets it, and quick. Or maybe Dubyah needs to get back to the ranch.

I'm probabley opening a big can of worms here... but I think the reason most people don't care too much about this tragedy is because most of the people's faces we see suffering on the TV screen are black. [/b][/quote]
Okay, Kanye...

Can you honestly say there has been no public outcry and that people are not shocked and appalled at the state that New Orleans is in? Perhaps the lack of response has more to do with the fact that people who went to help were getting shot at, and nobody told Bush what was needed until they freaked out at him? I don't know, just an idea...
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:13 AM   #6
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Many people share the blame - interesting that what has happened was very close to what journalists predicted would happen in an article three years ago...

Clip from CNN:

Link
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hakan+Sep 3 2005, 10:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ Sep 3 2005, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson
Considering the circumstances what would have been a better plan?

"Pray!" [/b][/quote]
He could have asked for help before the storm. Oh my God, that's a novel idea. Perhaps brought in port-o-potties to the Superdome, because any idiot know that if it floods, there will be no running water. Perhaps could have had a supply of bottled water in a storage room somewhere? Maybe had a supply of food as well? Like the military rations that take years to go bad...

You know, I remember in school they used to have fire drills. They used to plan ahead in case of emergency. Did he just see the storm and say 'holy shinguard, what now?' In a city like that, I would think one of the first priorities when getting in office, or at least before the hurricane season, would be to at least see what kind of preparations there are for an emergency. And when you see that it's a Category 5 storm barrelling down on you, and you know you're only prepared for a category 3, why do you not call for help beforehand?
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:18 AM   #8
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Why doesn't the mayor get off his fataing ass? Why didn't he have a plan to save HIS city before a massive disaster? Good job getting your mandatory evacuation to work, MAYOR.
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Old 09-03-2005, 11:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson
Any plan he would have come up with would not have been able to cover all the aspects of what happened. Hmmm someone should be there to step in after it gets over the heads at State and municipal levels...who's supposed to be doing that agiain? I'm drawing a blank.
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by FireFly+Sep 3 2005, 09:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FireFly @ Sep 3 2005, 09:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:
Originally posted by SoulOfTheFlame@Sep 3 2005, 10:04 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson
Quote:
@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him# . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson

Does that really matter?

I think it's more important what he's saying now:


"HELP!!!"

Let's hope he gets it, and quick. Or maybe Dubyah needs to get back to the ranch.

I'm probabley opening a big can of worms here... but I think the reason most people don't care too much about this tragedy is because most of the people's faces we see suffering on the TV screen are black.
Okay, Kanye...

Can you honestly say there has been no public outcry and that people are not shocked and appalled at the state that New Orleans is in? Perhaps the lack of response has more to do with the fact that people who went to help were getting shot at, and nobody told Bush what was needed until they freaked out at him? I don't know, just an idea... [/b][/quote]
1st... Did you even listen to the interview?

Anyway, I hardly think I said the same thing as Kanye. However he made some valid points, even if he wasn't PC.

Certainly there's been an outcry for support.

As to the rest of your statement... If your the fataing president shouldn't you be finding out what's needed, and reacting quickly and concisely?

If there had been an adequate amount of help sooner the shootings never would have occurred.
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by oilers_fan@Sep 3 2005, 09:18 AM
Why doesn't the mayor get off his fataing ass? Why didn't he have a plan to save HIS city before a massive disaster? Good job getting your mandatory evacuation to work, MAYOR.
I can see why you're an oilers fan.
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:23 PM   #12
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Although I think that there is plenty of blame to go around, a lot of it has to do with the magnitude of what happened. Can it have been handled better? Yes. With that said, only so much could be done in the face of nature's rath.

With all that said, I think if anyone should take the blame more than anyone it's the local government. Compare the response by officials in New York City after 9-11 to how New Orleans is handling the problem.
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Old 09-03-2005, 01:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flame On+Sep 3 2005, 10:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Sep 3 2005, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Sep 3 2005, 07:45 AM
Its a wonderful Churchillian moment for him# . . . . . but he's probably more responsible than anyone for a local disaster plan that appears to have consisted of one word:

"RUN!!!"

Cowperson
Any plan he would have come up with would not have been able to cover all the aspects of what happened. Hmmm someone should be there to step in after it gets over the heads at State and municipal levels...who's supposed to be doing that agiain? I'm drawing a blank. [/b][/quote]
I'm not surprised you're drawing a blank. It matches up with most of the rhetoric in your other posts on this topic.

Most municipalities in North America, including small towns, have local disaster plans that are relevant to the threats the local community might experience.

As an example, a small town with a railroad running through it and with knowledge that dangerous goods would be on those trains, will have - or should have - contingencies for removing those who can't move themselves in the event of derailment.

A few examples of a local disaster plan in motion:

I was somewhat surprised during the recent flooding in southern Alberta to hear the local disaster services agency in a small town had phoned the building I periodically occupy looking to ask if I was actually there or out of there. A rather stunning attention to detail.

I know the old folks apartment building my mother-in-laws occupies in Okotoks had school buses lined up outside at 4 in the morning when the town was in danger of flooding, ready for evacuation, even though they eventually weren't needed.

Those are examples of a local disaster services plan in motion, both reacting and anticipating, things that were thought of in a time of calm so they might be used in a time of panic.

That's what a local disaster plan is about. People practice it and when implemented, everyone knows their task.

In turn, that local disaster services plan would be interwoven into a regional plan.

An example of a regional plan . . . . when the tornado obliterated that campground at Pine Lake a few years ago, ambulances from Calgary and Edmonton and the local Red Deer area immediately responded while ambulances from places like Lethbridge and Medicine Hat converged on Calgary to cover those that had gone north.

As analysts observed after the fact, "the disaster plan worked."

The regional plan is then incorporated into something larger and so on.

Obviously what you have in New Orleans is far larger in scale. A genuine catastrophe.

Nevertheless, two points are obvious: 1) you had a foreseeable problem of massive flooding in New Orleans, something that was known for years to likely happen and 2) a complete lack of detailed planning and delegation of tasks of the kind I cited in the examples above.

There is absolutely no way that hospitals should sit for four or five days without an allocation of resources for evacuation or for providing food and/or power.

Locals know where the details are most critical - certainly far more than FEMA - and there was a staggering lack of planning and execution in the early hours and days.

For all his Churchillian-like rhetoric in the last day or so - aptly aimed at the chronicly slow federal response which is also a significant factor here - we did see in some of the Mayor's comments a clear failure of leadership.

As one example, the Mayor has been caught on tape advocating the use of all resources to pluck hundreds off rootops while people like myself might observe that hospitals rotted for lack of help and tens of thousands festered. It was a clear misallocation of resources and a panicked reaction, a stunning lack of prioritzation and in the early days, the Mayor was clearly one of those responsible for that.

I'm glad he was thumping the table yesterday because FEMA was clearly fumbling the ball as well - pre-positioned emergency supplies like generators, etc nearby to New Orleans have yet to be put in motion - but it all has to begin, not end, out of a local disaster plan.

There just was no base plan at the local level for anyone to build upon - as per the NORMAL examples I cited above in some of the communities you live in - and that is entirely the fault of local officials and one of the core reasons this was such an expanding cluster fata.

I hope the above helps.

Cowperson
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Old 09-03-2005, 04:49 PM   #14
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Coweperson, your response was unbelievably good.
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Old 09-03-2005, 06:16 PM   #15
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Cowperson, excellent observations (as usual).

I just saw a report on television that said that water did not reach the convention center and Super Dome for 5 days and paramedics and doctors did not arrive for 6 days after the hurricane. People were told to go there, and they didn't even have water ready? Very suprising since these was the evacuation centers. They obviously didn't have the planning in place that they should have.

Even without planning, does it seem reasonable to take 5 days to get water to these locations? And if you take into account the couple of days warning that the hurricane was coming, it really took more like 7 or 8 days!!! Disgraceful.
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