Luge athlete killed in Whistler during training

[dj_patm]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Anyone able to summarize what has been said at the press conference?

Sad. Investigation. Can't Answer Your Question X4. Bye.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by pylon

Even if he was able to slow down 10%, hitting a steel girder at 126kph as opposed to 140 kph will probably have the same net result. Also, of course these athletes are going to go 100%, they don't show up to get a green participant ribbon. They get one shot every 4 years for gold, and you can't blame them for going all out. You have to provide them with a safe facility knowing this is their intent.

Well, the expectation with slowing down 10% is that he wouldn't have lost control, not that he would hit the pillar 10% slower.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by zamler

It has nothing to do with "believing" what could possibly happen. It did happen, which means from an engineering perspective, the design failed.

That is the whole point of safely as part of any design. You don't design it to fail, but put in measures in case it does. And you always over engineer, just in case you were wrong. I find this death completely inexcusable.

Aye, as a Canadian and an engineer, this is bloody embarassing. And it's not like it's just one crappy athlete on a poor run, sounds like at least a dozen other people have crashed out/been knocked unconscious.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by nik-

I might just be overly cynical, but that just seemed really contrived to me.

Wow.....just wow

[zamler]

It is one thing to design a very fast track that may in fact be inherently risky, but is it quite another to put completely unforgiving posts right in an area where a rider could possibly fly off the track. Okay I've beaten my point into the ground, I just find it incompressible that any engineers could that careless and stupid.

I would not be surprised if it comes out that the engineers were pressured to design the fastest track ever, and along with other considerations such as spectators and television coverage, compromises were made.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by zamler

It has nothing to do with "believing" what could possibly happen. It did happen, which means from an engineering perspective, the design failed.

That is the whole point of safely as part of any design. You don't design it to fail, but put in measures in case it does. And you always over engineer, just in case you were wrong. I find this death completely inexcusable.

The people who know what they are talking about obviously had to approve the track design - I'm assuming the international Luge Federation. Also obviously, that's going to include over engineering for safety.

Thus, it should be clear that the people with knowledge of how luge works didn't think what happened today was possible.

Talking about negligence in this case is utterly silly, at least coming from any of us, who have absolutely no knowledge of track design. Let the IOCs/ILFs investigation figure out what happened.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Wow.....just wow

hey, I said it might be overly cynical, but it just seemed weird to me.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The people who know what they are talking about obviously had to approve the track design - I'm assuming the international Luge Federation. Also obviously, that's going to include over engineering for safety.

Thus, it should be clear that the people with knowledge of how luge works didn't think what happened today was possible.

Talking about negligence in this case is utterly silly, at least coming from any of us, who have absolutely no knowledge of track design. Let the IOCs/ILFs investigation figure out what happened.

Obviously? Appears not.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by zamler

It is one thing to design a very fast track that may in fact be inherently risky, but is it quite another to put completely unforgiving posts right in an area where a rider could possibly fly off the track. Okay I've beaten my point into the ground, I just find it incompressible that any engineers could that careless and stupid.

I would not be surprised if it comes out that the engineers were pressured to design the fastest track ever, and along with other considerations such as spectators and television coverage, compromises were made.

There's a problem with this though.

You say it's unacceptable to put unforgiving posts in an area where a rider could possibly fly off the track. This presumes that it's okay to put unforgiving posts where a rider couldn't fly off the track. If the engineer's models and due diligence showed that there was 0% chance to fly off the track there, then it's not their fault.

However, like I posted before, I feel like there is some negligence somewhere along the way. We will find out when the proper investigation is conducted.

[Acey]

I'm still baffled CTV has a high definition video of someone dying right on their front page.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by worth

Is anyone here naive enough to think that the track is not put through simulation after simulation to see how the track works and the physics of having a human going down it at 140+ km/h?

Honestly, if the designers had though it was going to be a problem, I'm sure they would have brought it up. It's very easy to point fingers after something has happened. Is it negligent? Only if they didn't do their due diligence in ensuring the safety of the athletes. Sometimes stuff happens. Sometimes unexpected stuff happens, but I think it's very difficult at this moment to start saying people were negligent. There will be an investigation and it will be decided if there was negligence. I will side with the freak accident argument until a proper investigation can be undertaken.

What do they do until then? I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.

I agree. All of a sudden everyone has turned into an internet arm chair luge track engineer.

[Barnes]

Everyone needs to read the article that dj_patm posted.

Looking at the stats, the Whistler track is shorter than ours, has 2 more turns and is 30m greater in vertical at 150m. Compared to all other tracks in the world, there isn't another on like it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Acey

I'm still baffled CTV has a high definition video of someone dying right on their front page.

I bet you they're going to get bombarded with angry calls/emails over this.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Not sure what you'd define as recent, but one of the 2 other deaths at an olympics was the result of a luger flying off the track in 1964.

1964 was when Luge was first introduced to the Olympics and it weather was to blame for the accident. And actually only one person died at the Luge event, and one was a skier.

I'm sure nobody thought 'well somebody might fly over here, but screw it we'll take a chance' but that doesn't mean that someone shouldn't have looked at the track and noticed an issue.

Personally if I have been luging all my life and I felt there was a chance someone could die I would have said no and made a stink about it. No one did, including the athletes, because no one could have imagined someone flying over the edge like that.

And the track should be designed so that athletes pushing 100% can navigate it safely. Forcing athletes to brake in order to prevent a crash, or a loss of time, is one thing. Expecting athletes to brake so they don't die is completely different.

Well if you think all sports are designed for an athlete to push 100% and not know his limits that is your issue and you don't really understand sports very well. This was a crash. Just happened to be a crash that turned into a freakish death.

[Mtt48]

http://boston.barstoolsports.com/ran...lled-in-crash/

This shows the video. It is so sad.

EDIT - OPPS someone already posted a link

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Regorium

There's a problem with this though.

You say it's unacceptable to put unforgiving posts in an area where a rider could possibly fly off the track. This presumes that it's okay to put unforgiving posts where a rider couldn't fly off the track. If the engineer's models and due diligence showed that there was 0% chance to fly off the track there, then it's not their fault.

Then who's fault is it?

And there is no such thing as a zero percent chance, just varying degrees near zero. And if you look at how that area of the track is, it certainly looks like a vulnerable location where someone could lose control and leave the track. Simply designing posts that can absorb at least some impact would appear to be worth the investment.

But it's too late for the luger. Very sad, and casts a dark cloud over the whole games.

[dre]

My deepest sympathy to his family and friends.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by dj_patm

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centr...2.html?cid=rss

This story originally appeared in The Globe and Mail on Saturday, February 6, 2010.

I feel dirty for thanks'ing that. But good find.

[Mtt48]

Man, so sad. He is such a young kid, gets to go to the Olympics. You have to think all of his friends and family and everyone who ever known him is so pumped to see him go and compete and then this.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Burninator

I agree. All of a sudden everyone has turned into an internet arm chair luge track engineer.

I have an engineering background. So from that perspective, I can say that from what I've seen, I see a poor design and a death that could have been prevented. That is my initial reaction, which I submit is just as valid and someone saying, no, everything was designed properly this is just a freak occurrence and nothing could have been done.