Calgary surpasses Ottawa to become Canada's 4th largest metro

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

We here in Kelowna have St. John's NF in the crosshairs. 3 or 4 more years and they're going down. To 22nd in the list.

Is all of Kelowna's amenities still based off one road?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Well, to be fair, for the populaton, Calgary does sprawl on a relatively large land area. It needs to be brought under control as Calgary moves from 1-2 million people or it's going to become completely unmanageable (like the GTA is now). Plus, if we're going to grow into a big city, we might as well grow into a GREAT big city. This means reurbanizing, intensifying, investing in Transit and so on.

I don't really think densification is sustainable either. Whatever the case, modern economies are totally reliant on cheap energy to function. Putting people in apartments doesn't actually lessen that.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

If it weren't for a road sign, you wouldn't be able to tell where Edmonton stops and St. Albert begins.

Unless that has changed in the last 6 years, you can tell where one ends the other one begins.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I don't really think densification is sustainable either. Whatever the case, modern economies are totally reliant on cheap energy to function. Putting people in apartments doesn't actually lessen that.

How would densification not be sustainable? Taking up less space, less infrastructure, less need for transportation etc is a pretty efficient way to live. NYC is the most energy-efficient city in the country....we use 1/3rd of the electricity of other americans, and our carbon footprint is 29% of people who live outside of it!

[stampsx2]

From Chapparel, Cranston, Silverado and especially Walden it's closer to Okotoks than downtown Calgary. I wonder how many years it will take till Okotoks, Airdrie and Cochrane are all attached.

Then again the city is trying to stop sprawl so they don't have to invest in new infrastructure.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

From Chapparel, Cranston, Silverado and especially Walden it's closer to Okotoks than downtown Calgary. I wonder how many years it will take till Okotoks, Airdrie and Cochrane are all attached.

Hopefully, never.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Table 5

How would densification not be sustainable? Taking up less space, less infrastructure, less need for transportation etc is not good compared to the alternative?

Where do you think all that energy comes from? Unicorn juice? Where do you think all the food that you New Yorkers eat comes from? Central Park?

If oil hits $200/barrel, it's game over. City dwellers will starve to death, it'll be too expensive to transport food and goods, and the economy will evaporate.

Have you ever thought why you're a graphic designer and not, say, a farmer or out hunting for rabbits or making your own clothes? It's division of labour. Division of labour is completely dependant on cheap energy. This is how you can exchange money for a hard drive assembled in Thailand made from parts in China made from precious metals extracted from Canada sold at a store around the corner and it doesn't cost you one billion dollars.

[The Goon]

In your face, Ottawa!

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

Is all of Kelowna's amenities still based off one road?

Pretty heavily focused there still. There is another road where most of the development is building up these days north to south between downtown and some of the beachs, Pandosy/Water st.. There is even talk amongst the chamber of commerce about eventually running a streetcar along it, pipedream unfortunately.

It's way smaller, mostly boutique style shops and restaurants with a couple supermarkets and the Hockey rink at the far end of it - all the big box outlets are always going to be on that one highway. Lots of new apartments and storefronts gone/going up on the second development corridor.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Where do you think all that energy comes from? Unicorn juice? Where do you think all the food that you New Yorkers eat comes from? Central Park?

If oil hits $200/barrel, it's game over. City dwellers will starve to death, it'll be too expensive to transport food and goods, and the economy will evaporate.

Boy, someone must've pissed in your unicorn juice this morning. I wasn't refuting the fact that energy isn't important, or that we all need to live in cities...so I'm not sure where that rant came from.

I was refuting your statement that density is not sustainable. I'm not really sure why you think I meant that everyone needs to live in a high-rise, but compared to how the rest of country lives, you bet your balls its more efficient. If we're going to be in pain when energy prices soar, guess how much pain your average suburbanite will be in if they are using 2/3rds more electricity? I'd love to hear your ideal alternative though.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The GTA adds a Calgary in population every decade now. Averaging almost 100,000 people a year. If you think Calgary sprawl is bad, you haven't been to the 905 around Toronto. Leap frog development, disfunctional regional transit and planning, the worst/ugliest development imaginable.

I guess you've never been to Edmonton. Or, even worse, sunbelt cities in the US. At least the GTA housing developments are fairly compact. Going to places like Phoenix or Dallas and you've got WAY worse sprawl.

[Bunk]

Scarcity in cheap energy is all the MORE reason to intensify and have a more efficient urban footprint.

Again, this doesn't mean everyone suddenly lives in 20 storey apartment buildings (like some people like to scare people into thinking), but it does imply somewhat of a shift on how we design cities and what kinds of infrastructure we prioritize.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I guess you've never been to Edmonton. Or, even worse, sunbelt cities in the US. At least the GTA housing developments are fairly compact. Going to places like Phoenix or Dallas and you've got WAY worse sprawl.

I agree about sunbelt (or many american cities in general), I was just thinking within the Canadian context. I've been to Edmonton many times, its suburban development patterns aren't actually very different at all (same developers mostly too) from Calgary.

In the GTA, many individual developments are quite compact, but are fragmented from eachother, not comprehensively or thoughtfully planned in a regional context and are poorly served by transit. There you get any farmer that wants to subdivide and sell their 40 acres of land and it becomes a "community". Calgary has a much more rigorous Area Structure Plan system that ensures that new communities are more or less comprehensively planned with a critical mass of residents, housing mix, amenities, schools, parks, planned transit routes and so forth (that's not to say that these plans are perfect - they still promote ridiculous and ineficient curvilinear, disconnected, hierarchical road patterns, stripmall style auto-oriented commercial and are not quite dense enough yet...).

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

From Chapparel, Cranston, Silverado and especially Walden it's closer to Okotoks than downtown Calgary. I wonder how many years it will take till Okotoks, Airdrie and Cochrane are all attached.

Airdrie and Calgary virtually already are. In Airdrie, the Kings Heights community and the light industrial immediately south of that are going to push right up agianst the Sharp Hill area of the MD of Rockyview, which is a stone's throw from Mallzac. From Calgary's perspective, the city is building its own industrial around Stoney Trail, which is also in viewing distance to the mall. Once these new developments, as well as the surrounding development at Crossiron Mills is complete - probably within five years - the two cities will be joined as a continuous urban area.

Incidentally, I have no idea why StatsCan doesn't count Okotoks and the MD of Foothills in the Calgary CMA.

[stampsx2]

Driving from Panorama Hills to Airdrie seems closer than downtown Calgary as well.

Urban sprawl can't be prevented by building high rises or more condo's. If you reduce sprawl you will reduce the available inventory of houses and drive up prices. People will just go to Okotoks, Airdrie and Cochrane to buy a house instead. Those communities will grow and reach the outskirts of Calgary. Not much of solution if that's what you want.

[Bunk]

^ People often think that sprawl is only about housing type and density. That's just not true, it's as much about community design.

However, I actually think that due to demographic shifts housing type demands are going to shift. An aging population with a lot of seniors will probably mean more mutli-family housing. Similarly, younger generations also have different housing expectations than their parents and grandparents, fewer people are getting married and having children (fully 25% of Calgarians live alone). Multi-family housing has already grown higher in proportion to single-family houses in the past ten years in Calgary.

[Bigtime]

Let us celebrate this accomplishment by building a fancy-schmancy designer bridge over the Bow river!

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Canuck fans have jobs?

Laser pointer quality control.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Let us celebrate this accomplishment by building a fancy-schmancy designer bridge over the Bow river!

Nah. How 'bout 2?

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Bunk

However, I actually think that due to demographic shifts housing type demands are going to shift. An aging population with a lot of seniors will probably mean more mutli-family housing. Similarly, younger generations also have different housing expectations than their parents and grandparents, fewer people are getting married and having children (fully 25% of Calgarians live alone). Multi-family housing has already grown higher in proportion to single-family houses in the past ten years in Calgary.

Source?