Suppliments

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

For the calories that you use up in a day:

Proteins (amino acids) are used for the formation of protein (muscle). As I mentioned, there is a protein "ceiling" of ~1.8g / kg of bodyweight. It is thought that exceeding 2.0g / kg of body weight a day stresses the kidneys and perhaps may lead to long term damage.

Carbohydrates are stored as glycogen.

Fats are used up as energy or stored in adipose tissue.

For the excess calories you take in each day:

All excess protein, carbohydrates, and fat are stored in adipose tissue (fat)

You don't know what the hell you're talking about and sound like you're just quoting out of some outdated textbook.

Here's what Lyle MacDonald says about how much protein you need.

I recommend that bodybuilders consume 1.1-1.4 g/lb protein per day

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...et-part-2.html

That's 2.4 to 3.1 grams per kg of body weight and a lot higher then your "ceiling".

Here's another article that debunks the myth that excess protein damages your kidneys.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/dear.htm

So, once again I ask you, how much do you weigh?

[Azure]

Good luck with him GTF.

He brought up the same lies in another thread.

[rubecube]

I should add to the diet I posted above that the only reason I drink a shake for lunch is because I hate lunch food and am usually to easy to make it. You could easily go salad with cheese, chicken, and olive oil there.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

You don't know what the hell you're talking about and sound like you're just quoting out of some outdated textbook.

Here's what Lyle MacDonald says about how much protein you need.



http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...et-part-2.html

That's 2.4 to 3.1 grams per kg of body weight and a lot higher then your "ceiling".

Here's another article that debunks the myth that excess protein damages your kidneys.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/dear.htm

I said the additional stress placed on the kidneys from high protein intake perhaps may lead to long term damage. The second article (which actually has references, good for you) you linked acknowledges the stress but notes that generally the kidneys adapt. I am not aware of any long term studies done with very high protein intake.

Your first link has no references, and he continually points out that he's selling a book, and trying to get you to buy it.

It would be nice if one of the posters here that are into science (photon, thor) could come in here and tell you guys a little something about the scientific method, because it's clear you disregard it entirely.

Here is where I'm getting my information. Every claim made in this textbook is backed up with a proper reference to a peer-reviewed article or paper. The author does not have an agenda, and is not trying to sell anything.

Just think about trying to get 3.1g / kg of body weight of protein. My "natural" diet - the diet I had when totally disregarding protein intake - had something like 1.2 g / kg of body weight. A protein supplement would get me to 1.7 g / kg of body weight. That's still only half what this clown recommends.

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

So, once again I ask you, how much do you weigh?

By you continually asking I can't help but think that if I was Arnold in his prime you'd take my every word for religion. Anecdotal evidence does not suffice in the least.

I'm 6'1, 185lbs. I have right around "ideal" body fat; if I lost any fat I would be close to, if not in, the dangerous, underweight category for body fat. I resistance train ~10.5 hours / week with another few hours stretching, as well as a couple hours of cardio depending on the time of year (ie hockey season).

So since this means so much, how much do you weigh?

Originally Posted by Azure

Good luck with him GTF.

He brought up the same lies in another thread.

You're awfully stubborn. I assumed that perhaps you learned something by not responding to me in the other thread, but it turns out you're much more entrenched in your product-pushing internet authors than actual scientific facts. Pity really.



Edit: Here is a link regarding protein intake. The references are there at the bottom.

Edit2: Oh and this is rich; frap's first link suggests 45%-55% of calories come from carbohydrates. While I totally disregard that link because of the source, Azure should try to explain to us why this author is out to lunch based on his (Azure's) extensive "knowledge". It should make for a good argument based on the least credible sources.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

That's quite the (erroneous) assumption.

I live in a cynical world where you cannot take a supplement and miraculously lose 50 pounds of fat and gain a ton of muscle in a couple of days without side effects.

I was just giving you a hard time because of our last 'discussion' on the matter.

However, these supplements you are speaking of are not the same supplements I think of. Supplements are Fish Oils, Multi-Vits, Viatamins A, B, C, etc, Amino Acids, Proteins and so on. I think you are confusing supplements with another type of product you see in a store like GNC and Popeyes.

Also find me a product that claims 50 lbs of fat loss in days...most claim they will help or increase fat loss not do all the work. Everyone one of the products mentions you need daily exercise and eat within a certain calorie range. These types of fat loss or thermogenetic (would not fall into the supplement category at all) are more to help improve results, not do all the work.

Supplements are used to help your body get certain natural items into your system that you may not get because of your diet, allergies, and so on. Supplements aren't something that help you lose weight.

[J pold]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post, once again I've gotten some useful information form all the responses. What I've taken away is to drink more water, and get more protein. I'm going to continue to do the P90x program, I like, I know it, so I'll stick with it. I'm going to try and eat a bit more protein dense foods regularly and maintain some of the ratios you guys talked about.

One other question, what about eating at night? I'm always get hungry around 10:00pm (I go to bed around 12:00) and normally give in to eating quite a bit. I try and keep it to generally healthy items (blueberries, broccoli, etc.) someone once told me you shouldn't eat past 2 hours before you go to bed? What's your take?

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I was just giving you a hard time because of our last 'discussion' on the matter.

However, these supplements you are speaking of are not the same supplements I think of. Supplements are Fish Oils, Multi-Vits, Viatamins A, B, C, etc, Amino Acids, Proteins and so on. I think you are confusing supplements with another type of product you see in a store like GNC and Popeyes.

Also find me a product that claims 50 lbs of fat loss in days...most claim they will help or increase fat loss not do all the work. Everyone one of the products mentions you need daily exercise and eat within a certain calorie range. These types of fat loss or thermogenetic (would not fall into the supplement category at all) are more to help improve results, not do all the work.

Supplements are used to help your body get certain natural items into your system that you may not get because of your diet, allergies, and so on. Supplements aren't something that help you lose weight.

In my opinion, the only supplements most people need are likely omega-3, and a good multi-vitamin (with calcium + vitamin D). Perhaps some people need other things like a protein supplement or other vitamins, but this depends on their diet, and you should always quantify your diet in terms of what you need before going out and buying something.

Now, while some vitamins are somewhat regulated (ie have a batch # or something... I forget what it's called), nearly all supplements found at GNC are not regulated at all. This means they can make any claim they want... and they do. There is little research on how well (see: how little) most of these supplements work, as well as their side effects. There's a lot of danger in these sorts of things (I'm talking long term damage, not "I've taken them a month and don't feel sick").

This range of ergogenic aids includes things like caffeine pills.

The only supplements I can tell you the pros/cons (dangers) about and if they work are not would be things like creatine, weight gainers, amino acids, protein, and caffeine pills. Some of the other stuff I don't know specifically about, but in this case it's probably very safe to generalize most of them as bad, or at least unneeded.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

By you continually asking I can't help but think that if I was Arnold in his prime you'd take my every word for religion. Anecdotal evidence does not suffice in the least.

I'm 6'1, 185lbs. I have right around "ideal" body fat; if I lost any fat I would be close to, if not in, the dangerous, underweight category for body fat. I resistance train ~10.5 hours / week with another few hours stretching, as well as a couple hours of cardio depending on the time of year (ie hockey season).

So since this means so much, how much do you weigh?

It is not about anecdotal evidence but the fact that you're a scrawny guy, and 185 @ 6'1" is scrawny, demonstrates that you have no experience in building muscle.

You resistance train for over 10 hours a week and you're still scrawny? Sounds like you don't know what the hell you're doing and you're just wasting time. Probably because you don't eat enough protein, or just calories in general.

As for my weight, it's significantly more than yours. Hell, 185 is around my lean body mass.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Now, while some vitamins are somewhat regulated (ie have a batch # or something... I forget what it's called), nearly all supplements found at GNC are not regulated at all. This means they can make any claim they want... and they do. There is little research on how well (see: how little) most of these supplements work, as well as their side effects. There's a lot of danger in these sorts of things (I'm talking long term damage, not "I've taken them a month and don't feel sick").

This range of ergogenic aids includes things like caffeine pills.

The only supplements I can tell you the pros/cons (dangers) about and if they work are not would be things like creatine, weight gainers, amino acids, protein, and caffeine pills. Some of the other stuff I don't know specifically about, but in this case it's probably very safe to generalize most of them as bad, or at least unneeded.

Again I think you are confused on what an actual supplement is. I wouldn't take a caffeine pill and say I'm supplementing my caffeine intake. However, living in cloudy Victoria I take Vitamin D in the winters because the lack of sun, so I'm supplementing my Vitamin D intake. Thermogenics are not supplements. And I agree thermogenics are a waste of money and if you just spent a little more time in the gym or looking after your diet you would get the same, if not better, results than just taking some pill.

What are the dangers of taking creatine, amino acids and proteins?

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

It is not about anecdotal evidence but the fact that you're a scrawny guy, and 185 @ 6'1" is scrawny, demonstrates that you have no experience in building muscle.

You resistance train for over 10 hours a week and you're still scrawny? Sounds like you don't know what the hell you're doing and you're just wasting time. Probably because you don't eat enough protein, or just calories in general.

As for my weight, it's significantly more than yours. Hell, 185 is around my lean body mass.

6'1", 185lbs sounds a lot like your prototypical hockey player.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

6'1", 185lbs sounds a lot like your prototypical hockey player.

More like an undersized hockey player. The only Flames that weigh less than that are Langkow and Kiprusoff but Langkow is only 5'10".

[Azure]

Kipper is heavier isn't he?

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Azure

Kipper is heavier isn't he?

No just under. But goaltenders don't count as most of them are skinny lil guys, except fatty Brodeur.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by J pold

One other question, what about eating at night? I'm always get hungry around 10:00pm (I go to bed around 12:00) and normally give in to eating quite a bit. I try and keep it to generally healthy items (blueberries, broccoli, etc.) someone once told me you shouldn't eat past 2 hours before you go to bed? What's your take?

How late do you eat dinner?

I'd cut out the carbs in the evening. Also try drinking more water in the evening. A lot of people stop drinking water after dinner and then end up getting dehydrated before they go to bed. The body is also pretty stupid sometimes and doesn't know the difference between thirst and hunger.

I actually think your diet is pretty good one if you add some more protein and cut out some of the carbs in your daily snacks (i.e. carrots, craisins). I'd also add a banana to your daily diet because they're incredibly good for you.

I tend to munch on things like cheese, olives, and banana peppers in the evening if I need something.. If I'm not worrying about sodium, I'll even hit up some beef jerky or pepperoni sticks.

[Kybosh]

I had no idea that 185lbs at 6'1" is considered scrawny. Learn a new thing everyday I guess.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

It is not about anecdotal evidence but the fact that you're a scrawny guy, and 185 @ 6'1" is scrawny, demonstrates that you have no experience in building muscle.

You resistance train for over 10 hours a week and you're still scrawny? Sounds like you don't know what the hell you're doing and you're just wasting time. Probably because you don't eat enough protein, or just calories in general.

As for my weight, it's significantly more than yours. Hell, 185 is around my lean body mass.

I know lots of people who are muscular at 5'10" and 165. Muscle doesn't always equal bulk.

[daaznfob]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Again I think you are confused on what an actual supplement is. I wouldn't take a caffeine pill and say I'm supplementing my caffeine intake. However, living in cloudy Victoria I take Vitamin D in the winters because the lack of sun, so I'm supplementing my Vitamin D intake. Thermogenics are not supplements. And I agree thermogenics are a waste of money and if you just spent a little more time in the gym or looking after your diet you would get the same, if not better, results than just taking some pill.

What are the dangers of taking creatine, amino acids and proteins?

A line cook at my work had seen me drinking my protein shake one day and and said that if i keep on drinking that stuff my kidneys will shut down and i will be on dialysis one day. This is apparently what her nutritionist professor told her. A quick google search gave me info about both sides of the coin. For protein shakes, the excess protein only effects your kidneys if you have PRE-EXISTING KIDNEY CONDITIONS. As long as your drinking enough water for your body to process everything you should be fine.

As for creatine it can be argued as beneficial or not. Personally i have tried it in the past and has given me a little bulk but nothing to drastically different. If you are taking this product you should drink tons of water and lay off the alcohol, at least dont take it on the same days as drinking(dont mix the two), as this will put to much strain on the kidneys. Creatine works by holding water in your muscles, alcohol dehydrates you causing you to pee all the water out. doesnt make sense to drink on the stuff

[daaznfob]

This is from bodybuilding.com

Amino acids are essential to the human body. Bodybuilders can especially benefit from supplementing amino acids because they aid in repair, growth, and development of muscle tissue. The body, through assimilation of amino acids, produces over 50,000 proteins and over 15,000 enzymes. Amino acids are not only responsible for the production of all the body's enzymes (including digestive enzymes), but they also play a key role in normalizing moods, concentration, aggression, attention, and sleep. After protein is consumed, it is broken down into amino acids. Then, individual amino acids are used to create necessary body proteins and enzymes. Digestive enzymes break down the proteins a person consumes into amino acids. Scientists, experts, and medical professionals agree that getting enough amino acids in one's diet is an important factor in maintaining good nutrition.


Protein, creatine, and amino acids are not dangerous to your body. Do a little research and know how they react with your body, everyones body is different. Anything CAN be dangerous, even to much water

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I had no idea that 185lbs at 6'1" is considered scrawny. Learn a new thing everyday I guess.

That can't be right. If J pold is underweight at 6'1" and 205, then I need medical attention. I am 6'4" and not even 150, yea yea I know. If I put on 30lbs I would look normal IMO. I am scrawny but not that scrawny.

I have some weight gain stuff at home but I don't use it because I am lazy as fata. Anyone want to come over and just beat my ass for like 3 months so I drink this stuff. haha

[wooohooo]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

That can't be right. If J pold is underweight at 6'1" and 205, then I need medical attention. I am 6'4" and not even 150, yea yea I know. If I put on 30lbs I would look normal IMO. I am scrawny but not that scrawny.

I have some weight gain stuff at home but I don't use it because I am lazy as fata. Anyone want to come over and just beat my ass for like 3 months so I drink this stuff. haha

Haha. 6'4 and not 150... you must be a gigantic bean pole. I thought I was skinny being 5'9/10 and 150