Suppliments

[worth]

Before you even say it, yeah I know, I know, chocolate milk, right Azure?

I like to use a product called Endurox R4:

http://www.endurancenutrition.ca/product.php?product=2

I've been using it as recovery drink of sorts for the past year or two now and I find it really makes a difference in how I feel the next day after an intense workout or a hockey game. Maybe it's a placebo thing, but it seems to work for me.

Anyway, the cost of suppliments in Canada is outrageous.

I have purchased this product from GNC before at the staggering price of $69.99 (with $10 membership). GNC is wayyyyy overpriced for everything, and i'm looking for an alternative.

As a comparison, this US site sells Endurox R4 for $34.95! Half price!

http://www6.netrition.com/enduroxr4_page.html

So I don't really want to waste my money at GNC anymore, and i'm looking for online alternatives I suppose.

I found this site which offers it for $10 less than GNC with free shipping over $100:

http://www.supplementscanada.com/pop...rox_r4_fp.html

So that's a start. Anyone have any other sites that they find are cheaper?

I think that site is run by Popeye's, so i'm assuming their prices are the same.

Also, I was possibly thinking of possibly creating my own recovery drink with a mixture of Whey, dextrose, glutamine and creatine. Any thoughts on that?

And yeah, I totally spelled Supplements wrong.

[HOOT]

Supplements...okay, okay I don't care but I knew someone would point it out.

[daaznfob]

Its supplements by the way haha

I have been using Xtend(no it doesn't do that) as a recovery drink and it is one of the best on the market and tastes really good
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sv/xtend.html

90 servings is about $50 american on that website above compared to popeyes which is about $100. Of course shipping can be expensive but bodybuilding.com has a wide range of products for relatively low prices. I have been shopping there for years. But when i just need protein powder i just go to Popeye's and save shipping and wait time for other products.

[rubecube]

Anybody ever try Nitric Oxide Stimulators? I've been looking into them but wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about them.

[daaznfob]

Looking at Endurox R4,you can buy most of the stuff in it separately. Antioxidants (vit C), lecithin, complex carbs (you can buy oats), L-glutamine, vitamin E acetate, magnesium. Branched Chain Amino Acid and glutamine is basically what Xtend is (above). Or if u want to save money you can buy those separately as well. It also contains a cheap source of whey protein (concentrate). You can buy everything seperately and throw them in a shake and save some money and/or get more for what you pay for.

[daaznfob]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Anybody ever try Nitric Oxide Stimulators? I've been looking into them but wouldn't mind knowing a bit more about them.

I have tried them mostly for the boost they give you (caffeine mostly) and some give your muscle a sort of a pumped look during the gym. If you have money to spend try them out. If not dont waste your money.

They claim to work by opening your blood vessels and increase blood flow (increasing more nutrients to muscles). Usually products like this contain alot of caffeine to get you pumped before the gym. But caffeine counter acts this process because it decreases blood flow. So if you would like to try it, either get one without caffeine, search amino acid L-arginine(pumps your muscles, cheaper). Or even try decaf green tea and cayenne pepper before the gym(increase blood flow, some use as herbal viagra)

[worth]

Thanks for the tips daaznfob. I will look at making my own.

What else do you guys use during the day? Basaically right now i'm on:

1x protein shake (whey protein powder, yogurt, frozen blueberries, milk)

I take that shake to work because at around 4 or so I get hungry again. I eat about 5-6 times a day and by 4pm i need something again because I will start working out at around 5pm or so.

1x recovery drink (endurox)

recently i've been taking the endurox during workouts because I find myself sometimes not having enough calories in my system to push myself. I'm definietley not taking in enough during the day.

My basic diet looks like this:

6am: Cereal/oatmeal
9:30am: Banana, granola bar, rice crackers
12:00pm: sandwich, yogurt, vegtable, fruit
2:30pm: vector energy bar, 2x vegtable
4:00pm: protein shake
5:00pm: workout
7:00pm: dinner (I eat quite a bit of chicken breast or white fish)

I need something more because this is not enough. I'm maintaining my weight, but I could stand to put on pounds. It's not like i'm huge anyway. I'm around 140lbs right now, 5'8".

Anything additional you can suggest?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by worth

anything additional you can suggest?

gomad

[wooohooo]

It doesn't seem like you're eating enough Worth. If you want to put on pounds, you need to eat a lot more than that.

Or... you can take these weight gainers my friend took. I never tried it but supposedly in one of those shakes it is like eating 2 big macs calorie wise.

[TheSutterDynasty]

First off, I'm a large opponent of most supplements. Or, at the very least, a large proponent of educating yourself prior to purchasing or taking any.

Note: the supplement industry is not regulated by the FDA. This means they can make any claims they want on their product.

Independent studies (ie independent of the FDA) have found things like no effects from certain supplements (despite them claiming a host of benefits), or even negative effects. Also, they've found things like ingredients (ie herbal supplements) not being present in their claimed amount or not present at all. Pretty sketchy if you ask me.

Originally Posted by worth

Before you even say it, yeah I know, I know, chocolate milk, right Azure?

I like to use a product called Endurox R4:

http://www.endurancenutrition.ca/product.php?product=2

I've been using it as recovery drink of sorts for the past year or two now and I find it really makes a difference in how I feel the next day after an intense workout or a hockey game. Maybe it's a placebo thing, but it seems to work for me.

Anything with a 3:1 carbs : protein ratio is an ideal recovery snack immediately after exercise or physical exertion. Chocolate milk is certainly a popular one.

And yes, you are correct in saying it's likely a placebo thing. Recovery supplements likely (probably) pale in comparison to 3:1 carbs : protein, since that's what actual, scientific evidence recommends.

Originally Posted by worth

Anyway, the cost of suppliments in Canada is outrageous.

Likely due to the miracle claims that most of the products have. Of course, people assume that the product actually does at least part of what it says, which in many cases is not true in the least.

Suffice to say there are a lot of victims.

Originally Posted by worth

Also, I was possibly thinking of possibly creating my own recovery drink with a mixture of Whey, dextrose, glutamine and creatine. Any thoughts on that?

Don't get away from the essence of what a recovery drink is and does. A quick boost to energy levels and something to help initiate recovery (ie from microtears) is what you're looking for, not eating half your caloric intake along with a host of supplements in one serving. Again, I recommend the 3:1 carbs : protein snack, followed by a meal 1-2 hours after.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

It doesn't seem like you're eating enough Worth. If you want to put on pounds, you need to eat a lot more than that.

Or... you can take these weight gainers my friend took. I never tried it but supposedly in one of those shakes it is like eating 2 big macs calorie wise.

Ugh.

When people are "bulking up" I assume they're talking about muscle. Eating a junkload of calories will not add muscle in any way, shape, or form. Just fat.

I don't understand why people not only want muscle but want "size" (fat), and so take weight gain crap and eat a ridiculous amount of food (usually bad stuff too). It's terribly unhealthy, and once you gain weight you gain fat cells which you can never lose, making it much easier to gain weight and much harder to lose it (and maintain).

Unless you plan on entering the strong man, I suppose.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Ugh.

When people are "bulking up" I assume they're talking about muscle. Eating a junkload of calories will not add muscle in any way, shape, or form. Just fat.

I don't understand why people not only want muscle but want "size" (fat), and so take weight gain crap and eat a ridiculous amount of food (usually bad stuff too). It's terribly unhealthy, and once you gain weight you gain fat cells which you can never lose, making it much easier to gain weight and much harder to lose it (and maintain).

Unless you plan on entering the strong man, I suppose.

And you know this from experience?

It's a lot harder to put on muscle than it is to lose fat. And you can't gain muscle without eating a lot.

[united]

Not really any recommendations from me, here is what I use:

Multi-vitamin
Flax seed oil
Protein
Glutamine (I have a bunch, just using it up, probably will stop using)
White Flood (Experimenting, first time using it)

I usually buy from Samson's Supplements or BodyBuilding.com

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

It's a lot harder to put on muscle than it is to lose fat. And you can't gain muscle without eating a lot.

Considering losing fat usually entails putting on muscle to help speed up metabolism, they aren't mutually exclusive. I suppose you could argue it's easier to eat less than it is to work out a 8 hours a week, but that's not to say either will be difficult (or easy) for any one individual.

And I'm afraid you have a very diluted sense of how one gains muscle. Caloric intake has absolutely nothing to do with it. Also, there is a protein "ceiling"; eating more protein does not augment muscle gain. Protein deficiency, however, will prevent muscle repair. This protein ceiling is, at most, 1.8 g / kg of body weight, but for most is likely less. That means you could eat 2500 calories a day, and if you weigh 200 lbs, include maybe 140g of protein and gain muscle the exact same rate as if you ate 5000 calories a day and 250g of protein.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Considering losing fat usually entails putting on muscle to help speed up metabolism, they aren't mutually exclusive. I suppose you could argue it's easier to eat less than it is to work out a 8 hours a week, but that's not to say either will be difficult (or easy) for any one individual.

And I'm afraid you have a very diluted sense of how one gains muscle. Caloric intake has absolutely nothing to do with it. Also, there is a protein "ceiling"; eating more protein does not augment muscle gain. Protein deficiency, however, will prevent muscle repair. This protein ceiling is, at most, 1.8 g / kg of body weight, but for most is likely less. That means you could eat 2500 calories a day, and if you weigh 200 lbs, include maybe 140g of protein and gain muscle the exact same rate as if you ate 5000 calories a day and 250g of protein.

And how much do you weigh?

[united]

Originally Posted by worth

Diet stuff

If you are trying to make good healthy gains you should be trying to exceed your calorie usage by 300-500 calories per day as well as maintaining a healthy diet of roughly 40% protein/40% carbohydrates/20% fat (good fat). You can find all the nutritional information on the food or websites.

You should eat several small meals per day, which you are doing.

To estimate how many calories you should consume there are some basic calculators to give you a rough idea. Perhaps someone else knows a better method than I do and can chime in.

Calculate your BMR here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris-Benedict_equation

and add 500 calories to that.

[J pold]

I always find this type of information very useful but also extremely overwhelming, every where you turn someone has something to say about supplements, diet, exercise etc.

I'll toss it out to your guys I'm 6'4 205, I'm a pretty in shape guy and have been working out on and off for 3 years. Right now I'm going to the gym at 1.5 hours a day 6 days a week doing the P90x program. I always try and have a constant diet but it's hard to maintain. Right now my typical day looks like this:

Wake up 8:30 Breakfast: Either a couple of eggs on toast, peanut butter on toast, or yogurt and cottage cheese.

I bring a large mixture of almonds, carrots, and crasins that I eat throughout the day.

I normally get home around 3 when I make a salad of spinach, tuna, and cottage cheese.

Than for dinner I eat some combination of pasta or rice, chicken or fish.

After that I just go back to eating Almonds, carrots, crasins, or blueberries until I go to bed.

The only supplement I take is a recovery drink after I work out (normally around 10 every morning) called ISOFLEX. I'd like to gain some lean muscle and lose a bit of weight (around 200 pounds)

If someone can make any sort of recommendation as to what I should or shouldn't being doing that would be great, thanks in advance.

[DementedReality]

im with jpold, very overwhelmed!

i do pretty intense martial arts 2 or 3 times a week and have no idea when or what to eat in advance.

if i eat to close to working out, i feel like i will throw up. if i eat to heavy, i feel like i will throw up. but i need enough to keep up with the workout!

any suggestions?

[Garbs]

Originally Posted by daaznfob

I have tried them mostly for the boost they give you (caffeine mostly) and some give your muscle a sort of a pumped look during the gym. If you have money to spend try them out. If not dont waste your money.

They claim to work by opening your blood vessels and increase blood flow (increasing more nutrients to muscles). Usually products like this contain alot of caffeine to get you pumped before the gym. But caffeine counter acts this process because it decreases blood flow. So if you would like to try it, either get one without caffeine, search amino acid L-arginine(pumps your muscles, cheaper). Or even try decaf green tea and cayenne pepper before the gym(increase blood flow, some use as herbal viagra)

I have tried a couple of these... really its about finding one that works for you. Muscle Prime has been the best for my friends and myself. But a couple guys i know like black powder and no explode.

Just go to a GNC and ask for samples of them and they will usually be able to give you a few to try to figure out which one you like best

[drewboy12]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Ugh.

When people are "bulking up" I assume they're talking about muscle. Eating a junkload of calories will not add muscle in any way, shape, or form. Just fat.

I don't understand why people not only want muscle but want "size" (fat), and so take weight gain crap and eat a ridiculous amount of food (usually bad stuff too). It's terribly unhealthy, and once you gain weight you gain fat cells which you can never lose, making it much easier to gain weight and much harder to lose it (and maintain).

Unless you plan on entering the strong man, I suppose.

I think you are mistaken. My buddy who was tall and skinny in high school is now ripped. Not fat, but pure muscle... at his largest he was eating like 12,000 calories of junk a day to keep the size on. KFC for breakfast, double big macs for lunch, pizza for dinner, as many cookies as he could stomach before bed.

Dont get me wrong, he wasn't as healthy as he could have been, but he looked good. Not fat at all...