Fine, but you're ignoring that post Carson, Leno lost to Letterman. Leno built up his fan base for a year, and then continued to kick Letterman's ass by catering to the middle of the road.
People are bringing this up, perhaps too optimistically, that Conan was prevented from following this pattern.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Fine, but you're ignoring that post Carson, Leno lost to Letterman. Leno built up his fan base for a year, and then continued to kick Letterman's ass by catering to the middle of the road.
People are bringing this up, perhaps too optimistically, that Conan was prevented from following this pattern.
Leno lost 10% of Carson's viewers. Conan lost 55%.
Situations are much different. Conan bombed and there was nothing there to suggest that he would double his viewership anytime soon. His ratings kept getting worse, not better.
Leno was no Johnny Carson, everyone knew it. Losing 10% of viewers was seen as success more than a failure.
And the "middle of the road" stuff you guys keep talking about is what matters to the majority of viewers. Younger audience may disagree, but they also think that Will Farrow is a good actor. Not much substance there.
who says that after being given a year Conan couldn't have done the same? look at the fact though, both Leno and Letterman have at best 5-6 years left for them to host if you use Carson as a benchmark. if Conan goes to FOX yes he could lose the ratings war for the first few years. but if FOX is patient, when those two retire Conan will be the top dog
NBC is only thinking short term here, which is why they are the last place network. they have no idea what they're going to do for the long term
Leno lost 10% of Carson's viewers. Conan lost 55%.
Situations are much different. Conan bombed and there was nothing there to suggest that he would double his viewership anytime soon. His ratings kept getting worse, not better.
Leno was no Johnny Carson, everyone knew it. Losing 10% of viewers was seen as success more than a failure.
And the "middle of the road" stuff you guys keep talking about is what matters to the majority of viewers. Younger audience may disagree, but they also think that Will Farrow is a good actor. Not much substance there.
I have no ideal who Will Farrow is. Although I don't really like Will Ferrell post Anchorman. So I guess we almost agree on something.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Supposedly NBC was making 40 million per year with Leno (and advertisers they have talked to are willing to buy back at Leno prices according to the WSJ) and was on pace to lose 5 million with Conan. Makes it a pretty easy decision if you run a business for them.
I still don't get the hate on Leno, he has people who work for him as well. His show was getting canceled at 10 no matter what, and if he didnt take the Tonight Show than most of the 150+ people who worked for him would have been out of a job. He has a loyalty to them, not to the television critics or people who want Conan to stay.
NBC was in the wrong here for this whole situation, not Leno or Conan.
The Following User Says Thank You to d_phaneuf For This Useful Post:
Leno lost 10% of Carson's viewers. Conan lost 55%.
Situations are much different. Conan bombed and there was nothing there to suggest that he would double his viewership anytime soon. His ratings kept getting worse, not better.
Leno was no Johnny Carson, everyone knew it. Losing 10% of viewers was seen as success more than a failure.
But when Leno took over the tonight show he didn't have Johnny Carson sticking around and having a show on 1.5 hours earlier to compete with! If that were the case nobody would have been watching the "Tonight Show with Jay Leno" because everyone was use to Johnny Carson for the past 30 years and would still watch him on another show instead. When Carson left it was Leno or Letterman.
People have been use to watching Jay Leno for the past what 17 years and if they enjoyed watching his tonight show its obvious they would continue to watch his new show earlier. If Jay didn't have his "Jay Leno Show" then that would have given Conan's tonight show a much better chance to survive.
But when Leno took over the tonight show he didn't have Johnny Carson sticking around and having a show on 1.5 hours earlier to compete with! If that were the case nobody would have been watching the "Tonight Show with Jay Leno" because everyone was use to Johnny Carson for the past 30 years and would still watch him on another show instead. When Carson left it was Leno or Letterman.
People have been use to watching Jay Leno for the past what 17 years and if they enjoyed watching his tonight show its obvious they would continue to watch his new show earlier. If Jay didn't have his "Jay Leno Show" then that would have given Conan's tonight show a much better chance to survive.
Neither did Conan for 4 months and no, people that watched the tonight show for years would continue to watch it. Unless they didn't like it anymore.
How is this thread so crappy after such a great show?
Conan seems to be the person that's keeping any perspective. These are comedians that have the best shows on television. Disappointment or anger is just silly.
I want to thank NBC for putting CoCo on the air when he was a relative nobody, letting him do whatever he wanted on the late show for 15 years, and then briefly letting him host the tonight show. Real life got in the way, and as Conan said during his goodbye speech - nothing works out perfectly.
Thank you CoCo!
__________________
There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Gozer For This Useful Post:
Leno didn't suck at ratings. Carson didn't have competition, Leno had to go against Letterman. And he won.
Does that address your question?
Do you have a stake in this late night TV host thing? You appear to be quite passionate about it.
Anyway, there has been a full on sea change in the entertainment business since Leno took that gig 15 years ago. You can't really compare their ratings.
I wonder if out of all this someone might actually launch a profitable TV show in the internet.
Do you have a stake in this late night TV host thing? You appear to be quite passionate about it.
Anyway, there has been a full on sea change in the entertainment business since Leno took that gig 15 years ago. You can't really compare their ratings.
I wonder if out of all this someone might actually launch a profitable TV show in the internet.
I was wondering the same thing. I think Leno's agent must be a Flames fan.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
I just answered questions given by the angry and passionate gang of Conan lovers. I did that in the thread created and mostly supported by the Conan crowd.
Yup, I am the passionate one.....
Anyways, I made my point, I am glad Leno is back.
Conan can go to FOX end entertain the ones that are in possession of that superior intelligence. I'll stick to the dumb jokes Leno does.
Ok, he (Conan) visited Finland and is a huge fan favourite in here, but the one thing that I can't do without is Triumph the insult comic dog, where is he when we need him?
