Raptors 09/10 season thread

[Machiavelli]

Losing after blowing a huge lead against the Pacers doesn't start things off well.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Another team we should have beat but couldn't.

This team gave me such a knot in my stomach during the 2nd quarter while we had that 23 point lead evaporating and it only grew worse as the game progressed until I turned it off in the fourth quarter.

I've never been sick watching a favorite team with a lead, until them.

The officials are seemingly on the floor to keep things close regardless of effort. I say the Officials tried their best to keep indiana in the game during the second quarter and the raps did their best to play along and give Bird's squad a freebie.

Indiana is sooooo bad, they look like last years raptors except with more 1st round picks and their bosh is a better 3point shooter(Dgranger). They jacked up soooo many 3's that they shot themselves out of their slump. Sure the officials helped them get momentum back, but the raps stopped playing perimeter defence -quel surprise- and the pacer's started to bury their open looks. Troy Murphy embarrassed Bargs at his own game, and bosh was left on an island offensively.

Pathetic effort.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

This post was a good reason why not to have a laptop near you while watching the raps.

Tonight, good effort. It was Italian night and Ande had a good night, double double...Yet, we almost found a way to lose this one late again. De Ro looked great with a couple highlight reel dunks. Perhaps he becomes a player... If he can compliment bosh and bargs, in a couple seasons, bosh's FA pending, they could make noise in the playoffs. They still look like they'll make it to the first round, but how far. I hope the teachers appreciate the extra revenue.

http://tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=306327

[octothorp]

Agreed, some very good signs tonight, but the third quarter collapse was a little worrying. Every team is going to go on runs, but there are times when the Raptors seem very weak at being able to push back. Still, I don' think NY got any closer than 8. I really like Jay Triano as an individual, but I'm starting to seriously question his coaching ability; the mental toughness this team needs is just not there.

Calderon had a great game too: he's getting some of his aggressiveness back. Still weak defensively, but not as weak as early this season. And his mistakes aren't the result of laziness, but usually the result of closing out too hard and getting out of position.

Bargnani looked great. His post defense has really taken a big step this month, but he's still weak against opposing big-men who have some range to their game. I didn't see the Pacers game, but it sounds like that was an issue again against Murphy.

I agree on DeRozan, he shows promise. He needs to work on his outside jumper, but when he has that going, he's got a lot of weapons. Already he's the best player around the rim of any Raptor since Carter, but he lacks Carter's versatility.

I can't imagine Bosh going to New York; if you swap out Lee for Bosh, that's not a championship team, and is probably a weaker team than the Raptors with Bosh. Unless NY can get James and still have room to fit Bosh under the soft cap, I don't see him going there.

[Gozer]

Rumours of Jose/Amir for Caron Butler.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Rumours of Jose/Amir for Caron Butler.

No thanks.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

No thanks.

Really?

I'd be thrilled.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Rumours of Jose/Amir for Caron Butler.

What I like about that trade is that it gets some value back now for Amir Johnson, who'll likely see his time go down when Evans gets back (let's assume that'll finally happen when we come back from the all-star break). Presumably you start Butler at small forward and put Turk in the second unit, which could be interesting as Turk could be the primary ball handler for the second unit. Or you put Butler at SG, which would give you a pretty great starting lineup, but leave the second unit a little weak, and might hurt Derozan's development.

What I don't like about this trade: the biggest complaint on Butler's game is that he settles for too many mid-range jumpers. Who else have we heard that complaint about? Oh yeah, the entire Raptors team. The stretches where he's been more aggressive have generally been followed by stretches on IR. He's not durable. The Raptors are at the best when they're driving, getting the opposition forwards back on their heels, drawing fouls, and then putting away their opponents with lights-out deep shooting. Butler does not draw fouls. Nor does he have lights-out three-point shooting.

He's an upgrade to Turkoglu at both ends of the floor (although I don't see Colangelo making a move that cuts into Turk's playing time), and long-term, I think that DeRozan's driving and moving without the ball and drawing fouls sort of game is a much better fit for the current Raptors personnel.

[Machiavelli]

Right now I like the way the Calderon/Jack ("Cack," as some fans have anointed them) unit is working out there together. Jose of course is still not doing enough defensively, which is why having guys Johnson coming off the bench and putting in the hard work is so important.

Reggie Evans' return keeps getting pushed back; makes me nervous about trading a good rebounder.

[Gozer]

But if Turk is on the team, and Turk isn't going anywhere, Calderon isn't a good fit on this team. He's not needed to run the offense like Utah needs Deron, it's just a different brand of offense...of course this is predicated on a Raptors team with Bosh....

[bluejays]

Not much that's not already been said, but one thing that concerns me about Butler is his regression this year. And really, there's no reason why he shouldn't be better with Arenas gone. I absolutely love Amir and giving the guy up is extremely difficult if the deal is out there. I used to love Jose, but this year he's been bad. Amir though, is severely underrated on the team and giving up the energy guy who works so unbelievably hard and is so successful at getting boards and blocks, is difficult. One thing about Colangelo though, is he's shown he's not interested in keeping around "fan favorites" ala, Bonner, Pops, Garbajosa etc. Somewhat smart, because he's selling high, but on some nights Amir is the only one who pushes no matter how bad the point differential. As much as we sometimes like to overvalue our assets, the sad truth to the matter is that that type of deal is probably what is out there, and it's probably what the combo of Jose/Amir will get you. I wouldn't mind doing it simply because basketball is a star driven league and that really pushes the Raps into having a real solid starting 5, but I'd actually be more interested in doing the deal and shipping Butler and a first rounder (if we still have it) to another team for a true Centre. Imagine Bynum or Marc Gasol on the Raps? I think that team would be pretty good. I could imagine Colangelo targeting a guy like Gasol considering he's Spanish.

How ironic would it be to have Calderon taking over the PG spot over Arenas in Washington?

[Gozer]

Hedo was quite pleased with himself after getting in early foul trouble against Lebron.

Early being 2 fouls in the opening minute.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Hedo was quite pleased with himself after getting in early foul trouble against Lebron.

Early being 2 fouls in the opening minute.

For an alleged cav killer he sure didn't live up to his infamy.

I think that was his worst game as a raptor. Those two early fouls were mindless. Why foul LBJ when he is going to score on that move without a shotblocker to intimidate, especially in the first 5 possessions?

However, with as bad as he played, there were more signs of encouragement: Bargs' assertiveness and d, Jack's ability to get to the hole, Beli looked determined, DRo with another solid outing for himself...

I think this team acquitted themselves nicely but should be upset in that they had the chance to stem the tide and steal the game but couldn't do it. Where was Bosh in the fourth quarter? He talks about feeling better with this group yesterday and then today lays an egg when we needed him in the 4th. Just weird...

Is it me or is Cleveland more deadly without shaq?

[Machiavelli]

Turk sucks.

I have nothing more to add.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

For an alleged cav killer he sure didn't live up to his infamy.

I think that was his worst game as a raptor. Those two early fouls were mindless. Why foul LBJ when he is going to score on that move without a shotblocker to intimidate, especially in the first 5 possessions?

I think Hedo knew what he was doing.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I think Hedo knew what he was doing.

Calderon is the only logical player to be moved then.

HOw can one move a freshly inked FA? I think that is a bad message to burden an organization with. Especially an org. that hasn't inked a big time FA since The Dream. They will have a tough enough decision upcoming with bosh, so why scare off all FA's of value from ever coming here?

How about Bosh and Calderon to GState for Monta and Biendrins/Randolf?

Or Calderon, O'Bryant and AJ to La Lakers for Bynum and Morrison?

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by fleury

Bonner, Pops, Garbajosa etc. Somewhat smart, because he's selling high, but on some nights Amir is the only one who pushes no matter how bad the point differential. As much as we sometimes like to overvalue our assets, the sad truth to the matter is that that type of deal is probably what is out there, and it's probably what the combo of Jose/Amir will get you.

I really appreciate what you were getting at, yet I just wanted to point out that the three highlighted cases were dissimilar. Bonner was traded as you have stated subsequently in the quote, selling high. Pops, was not a very valuable commodity, sure he had energy during a 10-day tryout but after his brief bouts of success he couldn't 'bring it' when given a pre-season tryout and a sniff of a roster spot. Garbajosa is the most lamentable loss, IMO, in that he was severely injured and couldn't recover to a pre-injury level of performance. It was such a tragic end to a promising career and I believed he had potential to be a spanish version of Charles Oakley, without the car washes.

Yet I dig the the idea of No way Jose and Amir to the Lakers. Amir is from LA, homecoming. Perhaps we could pry bynum out of the deal?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

How about Bosh and Calderon to GState for Monta and Biendrins/Randolf?

Or Calderon, O'Bryant and AJ to La Lakers for Bynum and Morrison?

You're right, Hedo us unmovable out of franchise professionalism.

If GState takes door #1 and Bosh walks then they're at square one. They aren't close enough to win this year to make that move.

No chance the Lakers take that. I tend to value Amir less than other posters though.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Gozer

You're right, Hedo us unmovable out of franchise professionalism.

If GState takes door #1 and Bosh walks then they're at square one. They aren't close enough to win this year to make that move.

No chance the Lakers take that. I tend to value Amir less than other posters though.

Perhaps they could flip bosh for another deadline package? We've seen it before.

Amir has potential and with the right environment could become like a keon clark with not the same length, if you can remember him. If he could augment his game with a perimeter effectiveness then he could be a matt barnes. I think he is slowly coming along. He is proving to be effective in certain situations.

[octothorp]

Bah, this is the sort of play that absolutely infuriates me: two minutes left, Bosh having a huge game, Bogut out of the game and nobody on the floor that can defend him, good shooters on the floor in Jack, Turkoglu, and Bargnani. And the play the Raptors go with? Antoine Wright from the corner in an awful brick that barely grazes the rim.