Earthquake ravages Port Au Prince Haiti

[Pastiche]

1stland:

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

If you are a nation that lacks resources or the means to be productive, why does the population continue to grow? Perhaps the citizens should exercise better restraint in having kids? Can this be taught? Or is common sense not so common?

Family is probably the most valuable commodity in many of the nations you are referring to. In much of the world, larger families are the cultural norm. Your children are your labour, your security, and your support system as you grow older. It is not uncommon for families in underdeveloped countries to have three generations living together under the same roof. No kids means nobody to work the farmland, (if you're lucky enough to own any) nobody to tend the animals, (again, circumstances permitting) nobody to protect your belongings while you're away at work, (no alarm systems here kids) and nobody to care for you when you grow old and can't afford the very limited health care that may or may not be available to you.

North American families with their 1.8 children and high standard of living are sadly not the global norm. In much (if not most) of the world, larger families are not a luxury - they are a necessity.

[dustyanddaflames]

1stLand, while I don't side with your perspective on this topic, I do commend you on sticking with your line of thinking and not wavering from what it is you believe in. Kudos.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

hmmm...okay.

contrary to what you might think, there are people out there that just dont care about third world countries that always need a 'hand out' regardless of natural disasters. They just dont expressedly admit it like I have.

does this make them bad people? it depends what your definition of a bad person is. I am being honest. I just dont care about donating my hard earned dollars to another country.
I have no control over how those dollars are spent. Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of aid relief has supposedly already arrived.

When an earthquake struck in Italy last year and killed thousands, I also held on to my checkbook. Mind you, the media didnt drum up support like they have for Haiti.

I beleive sovereign countries have a responsibility to take care of their own people. They should be practical and prudent and allocate money each year to a slush fund to be used in emergency situations. Especially countries that live in regions that are prone to natural disasters or close to earthquake fault lines.

I am not critical of people that donate. In fact, I commend you. To each his own.

I just hope that there is room on an internet forum such as this to express a difference of opinion once in a while.

Calling someone an idiot just because they have a difference in opinion is not constructive and it leaves little room for dialogue, debate or discussion.

Good Day.

P.S and for those of you that beleive Haiti doenst have the means to allocate monies for future emergency expenditures, keep in mind they have acheived sovereignty from the french for almost 200 years and still havent been able to get their ____ together.

This post is amazing.

Quoted for the stupidest thing I have read all year. And trust me, I surf the internet a fair amount and read alot of stupid things.

The very last point is particularly awful. Have you read a book let alone a history book?

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Family is probably the most valuable commodity in many of the nations you are referring to. In much of the world, larger families are the cultural norm. Your children are your labour, your security, and your support system as you grow older. It is not uncommon for families in underdeveloped countries to have three generations living together under the same roof. No kids means nobody to work the farmland, (if you're lucky enough to own any) nobody to tend the animals, (again, circumstances permitting) nobody to protect your belongings while you're away at work, (no alarm systems here kids) and nobody to care for you when you grow old and can't afford the very limited health care that may or may not be available to you.

North American families with their 1.8 children and high standard of living are sadly not the global norm. In much (if not most) of the world, larger families are not a luxury - they are a necessity.

Exactly, perhaps this 'cultural norm' is the reason these countries remain in poverty....and will continue to until someone has the courage - collectively - to speak up.

China implemented a 1 child per person policy because they had the foresight to see they were encountering problems with too many people and not enough resources.

With your description of 'their' perspective, it seems to me that parents advocate child labour.

Rather than bringing a child in this world for the purpose of child labor to better my position, I would refrain from producing children.

I understand your commentary on why these families have so many children. I agree with your commentary.

When natural disaster do strike, problems are magnified in countries that have runaway poverty.

Western nations are left footing the bill.

I also contributed to the Haitian earthquake relief fund.

Twice actually.
Through my provincial and federal taxes.
My government took the liberty to contibute for me!

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

This post is amazing.

Quoted for the stupidest thing I have read all year. And trust me, I surf the internet a fair amount and read alot of stupid things.

The very last point is particularly awful. Have you read a book let alone a history book?

Seems to me that you are the troll!
Have fun surfing the internet!

Maybe you should pick up a book sometime that isnt written by left wing socialists.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

In my opinion rather than it being individual citizens of the world's responsiblity to donate to a disaster like this, I think donations would be better requested from large multinational corporations such as Proctor & Gamble, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Monsato etc etc.

Proctor & Gamble

http://www.pg.com/en_US/news_views/b..._tragedy.shtml

Wal-Mart

http://walmartstores.com/CommunityGiving/9596.aspx

McDonalds

http://www.mediapost.com/publication...art_aid=120810



Your turn.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Seems to me that you are the troll!
Have fun surfing the internet!

Maybe you should pick up a book sometime that isnt written by left wing socialists.

Point me to a book, one book, where the author says that Haiti should have its stuff together because it seceeded from France 200 years ago.

Find me the most conservative author out there that says that Haiti should have had its stuff together right now.

Please, find me this book.

[ken0042]

[Mod voice] Let's keep the insults out of this guys.[/Mod voice]

Back to limiting the future population- how would one go about putting that into place? Currently the RCMP are in Haiti trying to establish and train an effective police force. If they don't even have the ability to arrest people committing major crimes, how could we expect them to enforce child limits?

I agree that Haiti needs some serious changes to take place. Hopefully some "good" can come out of this tragedy and North America takes note of a neighbour that needs help.

[1stLand]

@ transplant 99: Good on you for finding those links.
are you donating for food and medicine aid? or reconstruction aid?

@ pastiche: no one cares about Haiti so no one has bothered to write a critical expose on Haiti's problem with self rule

How local haitians reward charity:

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/loc...-relief-effort

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...LW3xuMIeKqr8JL

[Pastiche]

Brutal.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

@ pastiche: no one cares about Haiti so no one has bothered to write a critical expose on Haiti's problem with self rule

Really?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

This post is amazing.

Quoted for the stupidest thing I have read all year. And trust me, I surf the internet a fair amount and read alot of stupid things.

The very last point is particularly awful. Have you read a book let alone a history book?

Originally Posted by Pastiche

How ironic.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Azure

How ironic.

Hakan isn't exactly famous for useful contributions.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

contrary to what you might think, there are people out there that just dont care about third world countries that always need a 'hand out' regardless of natural disasters. They just dont expressedly admit it like I have.

Your a real piece of work man!!
Were not talking about Somalia or some country in Africa where people are suffering because of warlords and brutal governments we are talking about helping over 2 million people who have lost everything including loved ones due to a disaster that could and eventually will hit our own country. will you be as cold and heartless when a 200 foot tsunami hits BC someday or will you say?...oh well they had to know it was coming!

This isn't about how a country should have been, or about how many kids they have or should have.

This is about caring about other members of our species.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Really?

Okay seriously you guys are all missing the point here.

I agree with donating to help out people in need and have donated myself, but I also agree with the fact that people generally don't give a crap about 3rd world countries. Even governments don't give a crap about 3rd world countries.

Look at what France did to Haiti.

I think the point in all of this is that it may help to donate after such a disaster, but we're not really helping rebuild the country. We're not REALLY helping these people.

Its the same thing in many other 3rd world countries as well. We scream, yell and argue AFTER the genocide in Darfur, or Rwanda, but while it was happening nobody did a damn thing.

And I also think there is some truth to the idea that many 'charity' organizations basically blow money on ridiculous administrative costs. We should all make sure that the money we donate actually DOES go to help these people in need.

[transplant99]

are you donating for food and medicine aid? or reconstruction aid?

I work with a group that does all 3.

they have been on the ground in Haiti for years already attempting to help the poorest of the poor in the mediacl end of things, in the contruction end of things and most certainly helps out with adopting orphans to lessen the burden on what was an already almost non-existant infrastructure...an infrastructure that now is completely gone.

What do you do?

[JustAnotherGuy]

I think you people should take your discussion somewhere else. Lets use this thread to talk about the actually event. Thanks.

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I work with a group that does all 3.

they have been on the ground in Haiti for years already attempting to help the poorest of the poor in the mediacl end of things, in the contruction end of things and most certainly helps out with adopting orphans to lessen the burden on what was an already almost non-existant infrastructure...an infrastructure that now is completely gone.

What do you do?

nothing. Because I said I dont care remember?

Kudo's to you man. Seriously. I am really impressed by the spirit of human generousity.

But really, when you think of it, these people had nothing to begin with prior to the earthquake, with the exception of family members that were alive.

All of this money is all fine and well, but what are they going to do with all of it?

Feed them for a month? Then what?
Are you going to devote the rest of your life making sure these people are fed and clothed?

Lets get to the root causes as to why these people are broke as heck and constantly live in poverty.

Stopping short of invading the country like afghanistan to restore order and make sure a functioning democratic government is in place, there is nothing we can do.

If we do in fact do that, we will again be seen as foreign imperialists that are exploiting the country and people.

Like I said before, Haiti is the one of the most lawless countries in the world.

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

nothing. Because I said I dont care remember?

Kudo's to you man. Seriously. I am really impressed by the spirit of human generousity.

But really, when you think of it, these people had nothing to begin with prior to the earthquake, with the exception of family members that were alive.

All of this money is all fine and well, but what are they going to do with all of it?

Feed them for a month? Then what?
Are you going to devote the rest of your life making sure these people are fed and clothed?

Lets get to the root causes as to why these people are broke as heck and constantly live in poverty.

Stopping short of invading the country like afghanistan to restore order and make sure a functioning democratic government is in place, there is nothing we can do.

If we do in fact do that, we will again be seen as foreign imperialists that are exploiting the country and people.

Like I said before, Haiti is the one of the most lawless countries in the world.

So what is your solution then?