Bad World Jr. for Greg Nemisz

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Komskies

Alexandre Daigle, Eric Daze, and Anders Eriksson come to mind.

Eric Daze has no busisness being compared with Daigle and Eriksson. He was a 4th round pick that was good for about 30 goals a season. Injuries cut his career short, and impacted the short career he had.

[AtlantaMissesItsFlames]

It is one tournament. He was picked because he is that good. Worry about things worth worrying about. He will be fine.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MJM

It's a hell of a lot better gauge than the OHL.

I disagree if only because the sample size is much larger.

It's not about points, it's about watching a player and evaluating how their skills will translate to the higher levels. In Greg Nemisz I see a very well rounded game and a guy that has pretty good sense at both ends. Is he going to be a top line player? No probably not, but those guys are tough to find in the 20's. I see him as a dependable two way player fitting in on the 2nd or 3rd lines.

Nothing wrong with that.

Other reasons why the WJCs are a poor way to evaluate a player
- The officiating is different
- You are facing international teams that play a different style.
- Players are asked to fill different roles than what they do with their club teams.

[JiriHrdina]

[quote=MJM;2245497

Look at Crosby's linemates in junior (Danny Rousin and MA Pouliot). They were leading the CHL in scoring. Inflated stats playing with Crosby got them draft in the first round and second round. Obviously they were talented players, but both were busts professionally because their game didn't translate well. CHL stats don't mean a guy is going to be a great professional player.
n the CHL in a best on best tournament. His game didn't translate very well.[/quote]

Taylor Hall is no Sidney Crosby - not by a long shot. Certainly Nemisz is being helped out by playing his line - but he has to do some of the work himself as well.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMissesItsFlames

It is one tournament. He was picked because he is that good. Worry about things worth worrying about. He will be fine.

Yes, because our garbage forward prospect pool is something that doesn't need to be worried about. We have two legitimate prospects. Backlund and Nemisz. Backlund is looking brutal in the AHL and Nemisz just looked bad at the WJHC.

In the new NHL you need high end prospects to be able to fill top 6 positions in order to be under the cap and still have some scoring depth. That way you can afford the Iginla, Bouwmeester, Phaeuf, and Kipper salaries and still have some quality other players on their first contract to round up the top 6 . If you don't have prospects to take these spaces, you end up with plugs on your top two lines like we have now.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I disagree if only because the sample size is much larger.

It's not about points, it's about watching a player and evaluating how their skills will translate to the higher levels. In Greg Nemisz I see a very well rounded game and a guy that has pretty good sense at both ends. Is he going to be a top line player? No probably not, but those guys are tough to find in the 20's. I see him as a dependable two way player fitting in on the 2nd or 3rd lines.

Nothing wrong with that.

Other reasons why the WJCs are a poor way to evaluate a player
- The officiating is different
- You are facing international teams that play a different style.
- Players are asked to fill different roles than what they do with their club teams.

We don't need anymore 3rd line players. That's the problem. People are being harsh on Nemisz because he is not what we need. We already have two or three of him in the farm system. The Flames presented this guy as an answer to our forward depth problem, and he's essentially just another Sutter clone.

Sutter needs to stop drafting these type of players. Perhaps our anger should be more focused on management than the player. It's just people get pissed off when they see him at the WJHC, and he isn't really what he was pimped to be by the organization. Then you get people that absolutely refuse to see that, and point at things like stats in the OHL. Regardlless of his stats in the OHL, the guy is not a top 6 player.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MJM

Yes, because our garbage forward prospect pool is something that doesn't need to be worried about. We have two legitimate prospects. Backlund and Nemisz. Backlund is looking brutal in the AHL and Nemisz just looked bad at the WJHC.

Just because the forward prospect pool is weak doesn't mean you panic about the good prospects you do have. Development takes time and isn't smooth. To write a guy off based on one tournament when the rest of his development has been very impressive makes no sense.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MJM

We don't need anymore 3rd line players. That's the problem. People are being harsh on Nemisz because he is not what we need. We already have two or three of him in the farm system. The Flames presented this guy as an answer to our forward depth problem, and he's essentially just another Sutter clone.

Just because you've written him off as a top 6 forward doesn't mean the Flames should. You don't draft sure-fire front line players in the mid-20's. And in fact if you end up with a solid 3rd liner in that spot - you've done well.

The fact that we you don't think we need anymore 3rd line players isn't Greg Nemisz' fault. Unless you want the Flames to sink back down to lottery positions - get used to having players drafted with question marks.

[moon]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

i think it is justifiable for people to question the kid after the tournament.

for an organization STARVED for scoring talent, from the top line on the big club, to the 4th line of its farm team, it is disappointing to see that a first round forward be a "defensive"/pk guy, who picked up 1 goal the whole tournament on a team that was scoring 6+ goals a game.

I have no problem with people questioning the kid after the tournament, what bothers me is when people post crap like he had a bad tournament because he had only had one point or that the was the worst forward for team Canada, and especially that this performance determines how good he will be in the NHL.

Originally Posted by MJM

How is the argument getting old? Just because you don't like?

His skating is a well documented problem. In fact, essentially every scouting report on the guy talks about how poor it is and how he needs to improve it.

Read plenty of scouting reports on it and nowhere have I seen his skating called poor.

He supposively worked on it this summer, so people were anxious to see the results at the World Junior tournament where he'd actually be playing closer to an NHL level and not in the OHL where 70% of the players on the ice don't have a hope of hell of making it to the next level. The result was he failed miserably. Take off your homer glass for a second and rewatch thoses games. His skating wasn't just bad, it was attrocious. He was 3 steps behind every other player on team Canada, US, and Sweden.

This is such BS. He consistently kept up with Kadri and Hall throughout the tournament and they are both above average skaters.

As for the convenient "Look at his OHL Stats", the guy plays on a line with Henrique and Hall, and has Fowler and Ellis with him on the PP. Anyone decently talented player could be putting those numbers up with a line like that.

The line was put together late in the season last season and if anything he is boosting Henrique's stats not the other way around.

The old "he must have been doing something right to have stayed on Canada's top line" comment that seems to be getting pulled out here I don't really buy either. Where were they do move him? All the other 3 lines were clicking, and even though Nemisz was playing crappy, Hall and Kadri continued to rack up the points. There was no need to break up the chemistry of the other 3 lines. Why Henrique wasn't given a shot on the first line is beyond me. If he wasn't hurt, Willie Desjardins is an idiot for not giving him a shot.

They moved guys around so those lines couldn't have been clicking that great.

Niemsz wasn't playing crappy and the reason Hall and Kadri had the space and ability to take the chances to get those points was because of the work that Neimsz did.

Henrique was the 13th forward because he was clearly the weakest forward on the team.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MJM

Sutter needs to stop drafting these type of players.

Better to draft guys that will never play in the NHL?

[ipuckedyourmom]

Originally Posted by moon

Better to draft guys that will never play in the NHL?

Players taken after Nemisz in the 2008 Draft (27th-56th picks):

Danny Kristo (USA) by Montreal Canadiens
Marco Scandella (Canada) by Minnesota Wild
Patrice Cormier (Canada) by New Jersey Devils
Travis Hamonic (Canada) by New York Islanders
John Carlson (USA) by Washington Capitals
Derek Stepan (USA) by New York Rangers
Jacob Markstrom (Sweden) by Florida Panthers

These are just some of the players taken after Nemisz that look to be better prospects. Also, if Nemisz is a "third line" guy then why wouldn't we be better off taking a player like Patrice Cormier who was taken at the end of the second round. If you end up with third line players with a first round pick, I personally feel that is a bust.

[AtlantaMissesItsFlames]

Originally Posted by ipuckedyourmom

Players taken after Nemisz in the 2008 Draft (27th-56th picks):

Danny Kristo (USA) by Montreal Canadiens
Marco Scandella (Canada) by Minnesota Wild
Patrice Cormier (Canada) by New Jersey Devils
Travis Hamonic (Canada) by New York Islanders
John Carlson (USA) by Washington Capitals
Derek Stepan (USA) by New York Rangers
Jacob Markstrom (Sweden) by Florida Panthers

These are just some of the players taken after Nemisz that look to be better prospects. Also, if Nemisz is a "third line" guy then why wouldn't we be better off taking a player like Patrice Cormier who was taken at the end of the second round. If you end up with third line players with a first round pick, I personally feel that is a bust.

Give the Kid a chance!! Not one of those players has taken their game pro and Greg could come on very strong. No wonder prospects struggle when the pressure is insane. Things are not as bad as you make them seem.

[Dorkmaster]

Originally Posted by ipuckedyourmom

Players taken after Nemisz in the 2008 Draft (27th-56th picks):

Danny Kristo (USA) by Montreal Canadiens
Marco Scandella (Canada) by Minnesota Wild
Patrice Cormier (Canada) by New Jersey Devils
Travis Hamonic (Canada) by New York Islanders
John Carlson (USA) by Washington Capitals
Derek Stepan (USA) by New York Rangers
Jacob Markstrom (Sweden) by Florida Panthers

These are just some of the players taken after Nemisz that look to be better prospects. Also, if Nemisz is a "third line" guy then why wouldn't we be better off taking a player like Patrice Cormier who was taken at the end of the second round. If you end up with third line players with a first round pick, I personally feel that is a bust.

Want me to give you a list of players drafted after Nemisz that look to be worse prospects? Seriously, WJC is entertaining and fun for speculating on how prospects will do, but its not the be all end all. Pogge anyone? Plus if Del Zotto wouldn't have made the Rangers he likely wouldn't have even made the WJC team as he wasn't even invited to their summer camp.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fire

Nemisz is no more than a 3rd liner in the NHL. Assuming he makes it to the NHL.

He has good hands. I could tell that even from the World Juniors, even when he was off his game. His confidence was low at the WJC and he was second-guessing himself but he's got the hands to put up points. The question is his skating, which will improve once he gets into the Flames minor league system.

Upside is probably a bigger Ryan Smyth. Downside is another one of the big and useless guys floating around the AHL.

[rogermexico]

Originally Posted by ipuckedyourmom

If you end up with third line players with a first round pick, I personally feel that is a bust.

If you end up with an NHL regular outside of the top ten picks in a draft, personally I think you've won.

[burn_this_city]

So he had a less than stellar point production during the tournament. Who cares, players go on slumps all the time. It seemed like he was tasked to be the defensive player on the line. Must be a reason why he wasnt demoted during the entire tourney.

[PeteMoss]

This video might ease a few concerns... particularly the 2nd goal.... Neimsz goals start at about 0:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcaRkA-C9CY

[bigtmac19]

^^^ That was a fun game to be at last night.

[C-ero]

He played with Kadri and Hall...the biggest puck hogs i've seen in juniors.

[6FeetDeep]

I see a whole lot of excuses for Nemisz in this thread, like he was the "defensive" force on that line or Kadri and Hall are puckhogs. Truth is Nemisz was brutal. His skating couldnt keep up to this tournaments pace, and whenever Canada needed a goal, Nemisz was benched off that line and Dejardins put someone else on that line. Put it anyway you want but you couldnt be impressed with him in this tournament. He'll be lucky to be a 3rd line checker just like most of Sutters picks. It's just frusterating when you see the Oilers tanking, and having some good prospects, and the Canucks having Hodgson and other good prospects, and we got virtually no offence and no top 2 picks for this years draft. I hope we win the cup this year because things could turn around quickly in this league.