Buying Used vs Buying New (Car)

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Dion

You obviously have more disposable income than me. A vehicle is a depreciating asset and buying news doesn't make finacial sense to me when you could get slighly used one for a lot less money. I'd rather put that extra money into my RRSP's

What's a lot less though?

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Dion

You obviously have more disposable income than me. A vehicle is a depreciating asset and buying news doesn't make finacial sense to me when you could get slighly used one for a lot less money. I'd rather put that extra money into my RRSP's and continuous repairs

Fixed.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I don't think that anyone can argue the fact that the buyer is screwed by the dealership in the purchase of any vehicle.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Dion

Dealerships falsify service records? You have proof of this?

GTFO, like any record it can be "altered" to suit the needs of the seller, should they choose to do so. Don't be so naive.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Thats why anyone with sense buys a used car from a private owner and does some homework.

well, I think I would prefer to buy from a dealership rather than a private individual. Private individuals have no rules or guidelines in place that would prevent them from selling you a lemon. A car dealership now does due to the licensing that is required through AMVIC

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Berger_4_

So you don't think mechanics lie about that from time to time? How hard is it for them to check everything off and get the vehicle out on the lot right away?

The reputation of a dealership is at stake if a mechanic lies. Then there's the liability issues if the brakes he tested passed but failed a few days later.

I live in small town High River and if any of the mechanics at the Ford dealership here did that they'd lose a lot of business. Word spreads quite quickly in a small town.

Are there shady and dishonest mechanics around? For sure. A buddy owns an auto repair shop in Calgary. A few years back another mechanic moved into the strip mall. He lasted a year before he went out of business. The reason was for doing shoddy work and being dishonest.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

GTFO, like any record it can be "altered" to suit the needs of the seller, should they choose to do so. Don't be so naive.

You have no proof then.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its only void if they find the mods. Which I remove when I'm forced to take it to the stealership. I'm not gambling on buying a used truck and modding it when the motor is worth 15K. My buddy did that and he's had nothing but trouble. Considering you drive appliances I dont think you have a ton of knowledge on this topic.

LMAO . Well if you're doing engine mods they're going to find them when you bring the truck in for service. Like seriously, you've put $15K into the engine and are going to tell me you can just take that apart and put it back to factory condition to take it to the dealership...gimme a break. You must have a lot of spare time on your hands if that's worth it. I would LOVE to know what you have done to the engine that is so easily reversable, that won't leave any evidence and cost you $15,000.

If you're talking about just tuning your computer back to the factory settings with your predator or whatever you have, fine that's a 10 minute job but it certainly doesn't equate to $15,000.

Something doesn't add up here.

[Red_Baron]

In BC it's easy to check a vehicles transmission:
Know where the longest and steepest hill in the area is, and then during the test drive get the vehicle good and warm and take it for a hard drive up the hill, making it downshift and up shift several times. Problems usually rear their ugly heads during this test.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Sample00

Sorry Sample but its true. The only people cruising used lots are the elderly or the oblivious

I've walked enough lots looking for specific vehicles only to see the price 15-20% higher than what they ought to sell for.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Sliver

LMAO . Well if you're doing engine mods they're going to find them when you bring the truck in for service. Like seriously, you've put $15K into the engine and are going to tell me you can just take that apart and put it back to factory condition to take it to the dealership...gimme a break. You must have a lot of spare time on your hands if that's worth it. I would LOVE to know what you have done to the engine that is so easily reversable, that won't leave any evidence and cost you $15,000.

If you're talking about just tuning your computer back to the factory settings with your predator or whatever you have, fine that's a 10 minute job but it certainly doesn't equate to $15,000.

Something doesn't add up here.

I never said I dumped 15k into the motor, thats the cost of replacing it from GM. Its strictly heavy tuning, turboback exhaust, manifolds, intake, and mods to the EGR, and PVC. All told that pushes the horsepower up by over 50%. I also has transmission mods that only a genius for a mechanic would notice. The only mods I cant remove easily are the exhaust and manifolds. The exhaust won't void the warranty and the manifolds are hidden under a heat shield.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I should qualify my statement. My most recent purchase was from a dealership for the reasons you stated. Despite this, I always feel like I get hosed by the dealership in the cost of the vehicle and the value I get for a turn in (if I choose to give a turn in).

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Sorry Sample but its true. The only people cruising used lots are the elderly or the oblivious

I've walked enough lots looking for specific vehicles only to see the price 15-20% higher than what they ought to sell for.

when was the last time you actually payed the full sticker price on a vehicle?
We know that clients want to deal on every vehicle they are buying. Its called negotiating. I think its part of the business that clients actually like. They are quite happy telling their buddy that they got a great deal on vehicle cause they got the salesman down X amount of dollars.
Personally, I prefer it if the client is actually willing to purchase a vehicle and he asks me what my bottom line is. We actually tell them, GO FIGURE! and if I give you my bottom line, thats it
I guess we are trying to do things a bit different.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Sample00

when was the last time you actually payed the full sticker price on a vehicle?
We know that clients want to deal on every vehicle they are buying. Its called negotiating. I think its part of the business that clients actually like. They are quite happy telling their buddy that they got a great deal on vehicle cause they got the salesman down X amount of dollars.
Personally, I prefer it if the client is actually willing to purchase a vehicle and he asks me what my bottom line is. We actually tell them, GO FIGURE! and if I give you my bottom line, thats it
I guess we are trying to do things a bit different.

I realize no one pays sticker. But most dealers are only willing to move 10%ish. Honestly I think selling used vehicles is one of the toughest ways to make money. Especially in the last few years when cars were depreciating astronomically because new vehicles were being so heavily discounted.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I should qualify my statement. My most recent purchase was from a dealership for the reasons you stated. Despite this, I always feel like I get hosed by the dealership in the cost of the vehicle and the value I get for a turn in (if I choose to give a turn in).

fair enough,
I'll tell you this, in most cases, you will always come out on the losing end of a trade in.
here's why. like any other retailer, we buy our vehicles at wholesale and sell them at retail.
When you trade the vehicle in, we are going to give you wholesale for your vehicle and then try to sell you the new vehicle at retail. The difference is known as the spread. Thats the angle you need to work, its the spread. there will come a point in time when the spread is good for you and you accept the deal or its bad for the dealer and they say no.
I am going to try and get your vehicle as inexpensively as possible. Sorry, but thats the truth. We tell all our clients that you are better off selling your vehicle privately and working a cash deal with us.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I realize no one pays sticker. But most dealers are only willing to move 10%ish. Honestly I think selling used vehicles is one of the toughest ways to make money. Especially in the last few years when cars were depreciating astronomically because new vehicles were being so heavily discounted.

yup, you are absolutely right its been quite difficult for the reasons you say in your post.We however, have tapped into the niche market of sub-prime financing because nobody in our part of the world does it. And sadly, with the state of the economy and the foreseeable future, the sub-prime market will be the place to be, well, for us anyways.
My larger competitors here dont deal with sub-prime at least not to the point that we do.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Dion

You have no proof then.

Here's your proof JA!

As far as dealership maintenance records are concerned I have an example that changed the way my last car was maintained.

I had my car at the dealership for its 16,000kms scheduled maintenance. I knew the headlight had failed. I mentioned to the service adviser, "lets not tell the mechanic that the headlight is out and see what happens"

Sure enough the report comes back "headlights operational? ". Check. Yeah, no the headlight does not work. The real kick was, the service adviser says "You pay for the install, we'll pay for the headlight". I said no way jose, it will take me 2.5 minutes to install a headlight, and $20 for the bulb. Not worth it to pay a half hour labour at $90/hr.

Then the real kick in the teeth, I mention this to another dealership, and the answer I get. The headlights are warrantied to 20,000kms, you should have had it covered.

From that point on, I researched and did all the maintenance myself, saved a fortune.

So yes, it is possible for a dealership to fudge their paper work. I know it was just a headlight. However, the mechanic is feeling particularly lazy, transmission fluid doesn't get checked. A potential timebomb that was documented as being completed.

[Table 5]

I don't really have a problem with dealers low-balling on trade-ins. In the end, they are running a business, and should only take in what makes sense financially, and what will sell again. If you're bringing in your 92 Tempo, that thing is probably headed straight to the junkyard as soon as you leave, no matter what money they give you.

In the end, buying/selling your car at dealerships is for those people who don't want to spend their time doing their due diligence. For some people it makes sense to take the effort and sell/buy your car on the private market...and for some people it makes more sense to go to the dealer. You're going to pay a good chunk for doing so, but for a lot of people that's not an issue.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I don't really have a problem with dealers low-balling on trade-ins. In the end, they are running a business, and should only take in what makes sense financially, and what will sell again. If you're bringing in your 92 Tempo, that thing is probably headed straight to the junkyard as soon as you leave, no matter what money they give you.

In the end, buying/selling your car at dealerships is for those people who don't want to spend their time doing their due diligence. For some people it makes sense to take the effort and sell/buy your car on the private market...and for some people it makes more sense to go to the dealer. You're going to pay a good chunk for doing so, but for a lot of people that's not an issue.

Table 5, an Internet chat board is no place for good logic and rational conclusions. GTFO.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I don't really have a problem with dealers low-balling on trade-ins. In the end, they are running a business, and should only take in what makes sense financially, and what will sell again. If you're bringing in your 92 Tempo, that thing is probably headed straight to the junkyard as soon as you leave, no matter what money they give you.

In the end, buying/selling your car at dealerships is for those people who don't want to spend their time doing their due diligence. For some people it makes sense to take the effort and sell/buy your car on the private market...and for some people it makes more sense to go to the dealer. You're going to pay a good chunk for doing so, but for a lot of people that's not an issue.

My biggest issue with the turn in value is when the dealer performs mathematical magic to make the value of the turn in change due to the terms of the sale. For example, a vehicle is listed for $20,000 and the turn in is going for $2000. If you barter the cost down to $18,000 the dealer will often say your turn is now worth $1500 or less.

Then again, maybe I'm just really bad at haggling. I probably am especially compared to some guy that does it day in and day out.