2009 NFL Regular Season Thread

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I have a hard time giving the MVP to a nonplayoff team.

So even though a running back puts up one of the greatest performances in league history it still needs to go to a playoff team QB? Give it to Favre then, he had a better season statistically than Manning. Not to mention that he is almost 10 years older.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Mangini, Coughling and Mora all gone in my mind, for sure.

Mangini i think will be given another year. Kubiak was announced as coming back and I think he should be.

[transplant99]

Also, in using the argument that Peyton was the entire Colts team because you can see what they were like once he was pulled, you must also note that he wasn't the only one pulled from those games. Practically the whole starting lineup was pulled from both those games.

Same with Brees...same with Rivers...same with all of them.

But that wasnt my argument in any way shape or for. It was that he did all that with every single team he faces KNOWING he was going to do that because the running game was the worst in the NFL.

And no...Favre made little difference to his team this season...as that club won 10 games without him last year, 12 with him.

If you want to include Brees and Favre...then throw in Ridgers and Schaub as well...and even Rivers.

his numbers don't compare to Brees, Favre, Rivers, or even Rodgers for that matter

What?

2nd in yards behind Schaub
2nd in attempts and completions behnd...Schaub
2nd in comp% behind Brees
4th in YPG behind Schaub. Brees, and Roethlisburger
2nd in TD's behind only Brees who had 1 more and tied with Favre
1st in throwing for 1st downs
1st in sacks against..he was sacked 10 times all year (Young had fewer but only played 10 games)
6th in passer rating

How in the world do those numbers "not compare"?

And how do you figure the NFC is a tougher conference than the AFC? The AFC went 37-27 against the NFC this year. The NFC had 5 teams with 5 wins or fewer, the AFC had 3.

I am no Peyton apologist nor a big Colt fan....but the guy was freaking lights out this year and that included two rookie receivers he was throwing to in Collie and Garcon.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

So even though a running back puts up one of the greatest performances in league history it still needs to go to a playoff team QB? Give it to Favre then, he had a better season statistically than Manning. Not to mention that he is almost 10 years older.

As was stated before it's hard to justify Johnson being the MVP on that team when they went 8-2 with Young as qb and 0-6 without him. Favre also only added a net 2 wins over last years Vikings teams. MVP's shouldn't all be about stats but about who has the biggest impact on their teams and I believe that is best measured in how a team would do without them.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

1st in sacks against..he was sacked 10 times all year (Young had fewer but only played 10 games)

I don't get how an offensive line stat should help Manning get the MVP? If anything I could claim Manning's O-Line was a major factor that helped him achieve those other stats...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by kevman

I don't get how an offensive line stat should help Manning get the MVP? If anything I could claim Manning's O-Line was a major factor that helped him achieve those other stats...

Chicken and egg.

Knowing how to get rid of the ball in a hurry or evade a sack is a huge QB skill. Sure an O-Line can prevent a lot of sacks. But a good QB can avoid a lot of sacks from questionable lines by getting rid of the ball in a hurry.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Chicken and egg.

Knowing how to get rid of the ball in a hurry or evade a sack is a huge QB skill. Sure an O-Line can prevent a lot of sacks. But a good QB can avoid a lot of sacks from questionable lines by getting rid of the ball in a hurry.

No doubt. Peyton Manning gets that ball out quick enough that it makes his offensive line look a lot better than it really is. Put Roethisberger behind that group and Colt fans would lament how their QB is always taking hits. No QB in the NFL gets through his reads and gets that ball out quicker than Manning does. He's also masterful in getting his guys into favorable matchups using different formations and stuff like that.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kevman

I don't get how an offensive line stat should help Manning get the MVP? If anything I could claim Manning's O-Line was a major factor that helped him achieve those other stats...

He has the single quickest read and release time of any QB in the game...maybe ever.

Look at Rodgers, and i am a big fan, he simply holds on to the ball too long far to often. He was sacked 50 times this year...but in no way was every one of those on the O-Line...it was him looking, looking, looking, and not making the decision to get rid of the ball...which also accounts for part of his lowest INT total as well.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Sowa

As was stated before it's hard to justify Johnson being the MVP on that team when they went 8-2 with Young as qb and 0-6 without him. Favre also only added a net 2 wins over last years Vikings teams. MVP's shouldn't all be about stats but about who has the biggest impact on their teams and I believe that is best measured in how a team would do without them.

I thought the MVP of the league would go to the best player in the league that particular year, period. Chris Johnson was heads and shoulders above the other players in the league at his position. Manning is a great QB who had an outstanding season but not unlike a number of other players at his same position. In fact 10 QB's threw for over 4000 yards this season. Twelve QBs threw for 25 or more touch downs this season. It was the year of the QB. Give the MVP to the RB who distinguished himself from the rest of the league. Not a QB who was just as good as the other QB's around him.

[burn_baby_burn]

Its sure nice to end the season on a high note. Althouth the Chiefs went 4-12 I feel like we won a championship or something. Leaves a good feeling heading into the offseason.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I thought the MVP of the league would go to the best player in the league that particular year, period. Chris Johnson was heads and shoulders above the other players in the league at his position. Manning is a great QB who had an outstanding season but not unlike a number of other players at his same position. In fact 10 QB's threw for over 4000 yards this season. Twelve QBs threw for 25 or more touch downs this season. It was the year of the QB. Give the MVP to the RB who distinguished himself from the rest of the league. Not a QB who was just as good as the other QB's around him.

I'm sure this has been discussed before on CP, but IMO there is a difference between most valuable and most outstanding player.

I see most valuable as the player that is most directly related to the success of his team. This season is likely Manning, although good arguments could be made for a few players, mostly QB's.

Most outstanding player, which IMO is closer to offensive/defensive player of the year would be just that. Chris Johnson was the most outstanding player, but not the most valuable player.

[Sylvanfan]

In my life as a Chiefs fan, the wins in Denver have been few and far between. I still remember that Joe Montana last minute win on Monday Night in 94 vividly. Of all the Chiefs teams to pull it off this one certainly seemed like one of the least likely to do it. As bad as they were, there were 4 other games this year they easily could have won, and 2 of those they let get away. I'm hoping the next decade gives me more than 2 playoff appearances and at least one playoff win. Last decade, I think only the Browns, Texans, and Lions were worst than the Chiefs in this regard.

[burn_baby_burn]

Jamaal Charles is definitely giving us Chiefs fans some hope for the future. His emergence has had quite an impact on the Chiefs offense. From Cassel getting sacked less to a vastly improved third down conversion rate among other things. If Pioli can some how some way improve the defense this off season the Chiefs might actually have something to build on. Rumors of Crennel being the DC next season with Charlie Wies being the OC.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I thought the MVP of the league would go to the best player in the league that particular year, period. Chris Johnson was heads and shoulders above the other players in the league at his position. Manning is a great QB who had an outstanding season but not unlike a number of other players at his same position. In fact 10 QB's threw for over 4000 yards this season. Twelve QBs threw for 25 or more touch downs this season. It was the year of the QB. Give the MVP to the RB who distinguished himself from the rest of the league. Not a QB who was just as good as the other QB's around him.

Johnson broke 100 yds only 2x in the first 6 games including one game of 57 yards and one of 34. Once Young became QB the Titans were able to run the zone read option and other types of options that other running backs of his caliber don't have the chance too. After Young became QB Johnson was never below 100 and was only below 120 3 times in 10 games. Johnson is a great running back, but having a QB who can run the option with you effectively is a huge boon to your game.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Johnson broke 100 yds only 2x in the first 6 games including one game of 57 yards and one of 34. Once Young became QB the Titans were able to run the zone read option and other types of options that other running backs of his caliber don't have the chance too. After Young became QB Johnson was never below 100 and was only below 120 3 times in 10 games. Johnson is a great running back, but having a QB who can run the option with you effectively is a huge boon to your game.

Give it to Favre then. His numbers are just as good or better than Manning's. Only throwing 7 interceptions is amazing while matching Manning with 33 TD's. Doing so at an advanced age to boot.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Give it to Favre then. His numbers are just as good or better than Manning's. Only throwing 7 interceptions is amazing while matching Manning with 33 TD's. Doing so at an advanced age to boot.

Perhaps, but defenses were stacking 8 or 9 in the box every week to stop AP. That made Favre's life a lot easier. Manning barely had a running game, defenses were gunning for him AND dropping men into coverage.

[flames_1987]

Manning hands down had one of the best seasons for anyone who has played the position.

He found a way to lead his team to an unblemished record when he played the entire game. Something none of the other players in consideration did. He did so with a running game that hovered around dead last in the NFL all year and two rookie wideouts. Manning is probably the only quarterback to have ever played the game that could've found a way to win in Miami like he did this year. 6 games in a row this year when he rallied the goals to 4th quarter comebacks.

The Colts are competing with the Rams for the first pick overall if they lose Manning.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

The Colts are competing with the Rams for the first pick overall if they lose Manning.

Well the man is horribly under paid then. And Tony Dungy is very overrated.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Well the man is horribly under paid then. And Tony Dungy is very overrated.

Dungy or Jim Caldwell?

I think the statement that the Colts without Manning would be St.Louis Rams like is dead wrong and a huge exaggeration. If thats the case they'd go sign a Jeff Garcia and devise a different game plan. Fact is they still have more than enough talent on defence, and with Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne there is talent on offence. But Peyton Manning is what moves them from being a team who are in the playoffs one year and out the next year to being the elite level team who win 12 games every season.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Is there a F you button? (the pictures, are they really necessary BBB? )

Syl...that Monday nighter in 94 is the only Broncos loss I can recall smiling after. One of the greatest NFL games ever played.