Israel admits harvesting organs from Palestinians who didn't need them any more

[HPLovecraft]

Both Israel and Palestine commit terrible, terrible atrocities on each other's people. It's basically just a "Well, he started it..." argument with them now.

Israel DOES murder a lot of innocent people with fancy U.S. weapons. Not to say they're all innocent, there are a lot of psychotic terrorist-folk they're killing to, but they don't exactly go out of their way to distinguish the two. It's begun to just look like they honestly don't care.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Both Israel and Palestine commit terrible, terrible atrocities on each other's people. It's basically just a "Well, he started it..." argument with them now.

Israel DOES murder a lot of innocent people with fancy U.S. weapons. Not to say they're all innocent, there are a lot of psychotic terrorist-folk they're killing to, but they don't exactly go out of their way to distinguish the two. It's begun to just look like they honestly don't care.

Yes you make a good point. However, there is a reason why the Palestinians attack the Israelis in the first place. I can go on and on about this, but I think it all boils down to what the Palestinian "terrorists" are fighting for is not the same thing that Al Qaeda is fighting for. Palestinians are fighting for a homeland and basic human rights. Al Qaeda is fighting for Islamic world dominance. Those are two completely different things. Israel has twisted the truth and made it seem like the victims are the agressors.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yes you make a good point. However, there is a reason why the Palestinians attack the Israelis in the first place. I can go on and on about this, but I think it all boils down to what the Palestinian "terrorists" are fighting for is not the same thing that Al Qaeda is fighting for. Palestinians are fighting for a homeland and basic human rights. Al Qaeda is fighting for Islamic world dominance. Those are two completely different things. Israel has twisted the truth and made it seem like the victims are the agressors.

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that.

Zero Palestinians would be displaced if Israel hadn't been attacked first. Also most Israelis are the decendatns of refugees from arab countries.

Basically after the Ottoman empire broke up there was a free for all. Arabs ended up doing a lot better than any other group. No the Palestinians themselves don't have a homeland, but there has never been a country called Palestine in the history of humanity. Also, there were no calls for a Palestinian homeland when the West Bank was a territory of Jordan.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by blankall

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that.

Zero Palestinians would be displaced if Israel hadn't been attacked first. Also most Israelis are the decendatns of refugees from arab countries.

Basically after the Ottoman empire broke up there was a free for all. Arabs ended up doing a lot better than any other group. No the Palestinians themselves don't have a homeland, but there has never been a country called Palestine in the history of humanity. Also, there were no calls for a Palestinian homeland when the West Bank was a territory of Jordan.

So the 700,000 palestinians displaced from the area between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river after 1948 were never really there? The 3 million Palestinians living there right now should just get up and move to Jordan? Isn't that ethnic cleansing? It doesn't matter whether or not there has ever been an independent nation called Palestine before the creation of Isreal. The fact is, the majority of the population of present day Israel, West Bank and Gaza has always been Palestinians, not Jewish.

Here's an interesting fact, Judaism is a religion, not a nationality or race. Anyone can convert into Judaism, but nobody can convert into Palestinian. Israel is the only country in the world that is the exclusive homeland of a religious group.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Why is it always antisemitism to criticize Israel. I think most people that disagree with Israel's policies don't actually hate Jews, but hate the genocide that is happening. The way I see it, Israel is a modern day apartheid South Africa that happens to be majority Jewish.

Explain to me why Israel is continuously held to a higher standard than other countries who commit the most blatant human rights violations.

Explain why, during the last Toronto Gay Pride Parade, a group called "Queers against Apartied" protested Israel, despite the fact that Tel Aviv has the regions only gay pride parade.

Explain why, if certain people simply disagree with Israel's policies, they then claim that Jews control the world media

Explain why conspiracy theorists, known to "disagree" with Israel, claim all American Jews were in on the plot to destroy the Worlds Trade Centres.

Explain why have groups such as the Aryan Nations, known to hate Jews, also hate Israel.

The only in vogue antisemitism now is to criticize Israel.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So the 700,000 palestinians displaced from the area between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river after 1948 were never really there? The 3 million Palestinians living there right now should just get up and move to Jordan? Isn't that ethnic cleansing? It doesn't matter whether or not there has ever been an independent nation called Palestine before the creation of Isreal. The fact is, the majority of the population of present day Israel, West Bank and Gaza has always been Palestinians, not Jewish.

Here's an interesting fact, Judaism is a religion, not a nationality or race. Anyone can convert into Judaism, but nobody can convert into Palestinian. Israel is the only country in the world that is the exclusive homeland of a religious group.

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Prior to Israel's creation, and for millenia prior, the region was basically no-man's land with successive people colonizing, then being defeated by the next group that came along.

The 3 million Palestinians can have their own state. They could have had it 10 years ago, if not for the second intifada.

Israel only wants peace. Leave them alone, and the Palestinians will get their state!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So the 700,000 palestinians displaced from the area between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river after 1948 were never really there? The 3 million Palestinians living there right now should just get up and move to Jordan? Isn't that ethnic cleansing? It doesn't matter whether or not there has ever been an independent nation called Palestine before the creation of Isreal. The fact is, the majority of the population of present day Israel, West Bank and Gaza has always been Palestinians, not Jewish.

Here's an interesting fact, Judaism is a religion, not a nationality or race. Anyone can convert into Judaism, but nobody can convert into Palestinian. Israel is the only country in the world that is the exclusive homeland of a religious group.

I don't believe I ever said anything to that regards. The original boundaries of Israel were smaller than they are now, noone was displaced until fighting started. The arabs invaded, lost and new boundaries were formed. Yes many Palestinians were displaced in this fighting. But just as many Jews were displaced from arab lands. Israel absorbed the Jews. The arab countries used the newly created Palestinian people as pawns to fight the Jews.

It's not ethnic cleansing. It's a population transfer. There remains over one million arab muslims in Israel. How many Jews remain in Iran, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, etc etc etc.... Which people were truly ethnically cleansed?

Although Judaism is a religion, it is also linked with ethnicity and culture. You can not convert to being an Ashkenazi Jew, nor can you convert away from it.

There are many Jews in Israel who do not practice Judaism.

I think you've let your misconceptions about what a Jew is cloud your judgment on this issue.


Your argument is also flawed. Your saying israel is racist and practices ethnic cleansing for wanting to form a courtry based on culutural element. That doesn't make any sesne. If anyone can be a jew, then race has nothing to do with it. However, you clearly know this is wrong and that Jewishness is related to ethnicity.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by bcb

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Prior to Israel's creation, and for millenia prior, the region was basically no-man's land with successive people colonizing, then being defeated by the next group that came along.

The 3 million Palestinians can have their own state. They could have had it 10 years ago, if not for the second intifada.

Israel only wants peace. Leave them alone, and the Palestinians will get their state!

They could have had a state if the Israelis didnt take the ridiculous stance that all the land taken during the 6 days war was theirs to keep. If they werent so absorbed with constantly expanding their borders this could have been settled decades ago.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

They could have had a state if the Israelis didnt take the ridiculous stance that all the land taken during the 6 days war was theirs to keep. If they werent so absorbed with constantly expanding their borders this could have been settled decades ago.

I didn't realize that land won in a war you didn't start wasn't yours to keep

[blankall]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

They could have had a state if the Israelis didnt take the ridiculous stance that all the land taken during the 6 days war was theirs to keep. If they werent so absorbed with constantly expanding their borders this could have been settled decades ago.

This is debatable. The last time Israel withdrew from a territory, they weren't exactly met with doves of peace. The Palestinians were also offered over 97% of the West Bank with the option for compensation for the remaining 3% or so from Northern Israel during the Taba summits. They rejected this.

They were also offered East Jerusalem during the Taba summits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_summit

As for constantly expanding their borders, I don't think you can say this either. The Israelis have been contracting their borders since 1967. They are no longer in Gaza they have built a fence that puts over 95% of the West Bank on the other side.

Does Israel really owe the Palestinians 100% of the West Bank? They gained it in a war when they were invaded by their neighbours. If Israel had lost that war would they have been given 100% of Israel back?

All in all though, I think Israel is not innocent in this conflict either. The biggest issue is the settlers. They are religious fanatics. I also think that non-religious Jews in Israel have an obligation to stand up to these people.

[_Q_]

[QUOTE]Explain to me why Israel is continuously held to a higher standard than other countries who commit the most blatant human rights violations./QUOTE]

They have broken many UN resolutions since 1948, without consequence. Seems to me they are held to no standard as compared to the rest of the world.

Explain why, during the last Toronto Gay Pride Parade, a group called "Queers against Apartied" protested Israel, despite the fact that Tel Aviv has the regions only gay pride parade.

So having a gay pride parade allows you to murder minorities? Awesome... those are some high standards.

Explain why, if certain people simply disagree with Israel's policies, they then claim that Jews control the world media

Explain why conspiracy theorists, known to "disagree" with Israel, claim all American Jews were in on the plot to destroy the Worlds Trade Centres.

Not always. There's many level headed people out there including Jews that are against the state of Israel. Don't believe me? check these guys out http://www.nkusa.org/

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Prior to Israel's creation, and for millenia prior, the region was basically no-man's land with successive people colonizing, then being defeated by the next group that came along.

The 3 million Palestinians can have their own state. They could have had it 10 years ago, if not for the second intifada.

Israel only wants peace. Leave them alone, and the Palestinians will get their state!

Yes, because Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt had many people of different cultures and religions, yet nobody ever lived in Jerusalem, Gaza, Jaffa, Haifa, Nablus, Bethlehem, Nazareth and Hebron. Those cities just seemed to sprout up as soon as the nice Jews came along.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by bcb

I didn't realize that land won in a war you didn't start wasn't yours to keep

This is the common attitude that keeps this going on indefinitely. If they had kept their borders within the UN mandated area it would have been fine. Instead due to a perceived sense that it all belonged to them they pushes outward and continue to do so to this day. I'm not going to make this a long winded argument since neither side ever sees eye to eye. I just feel they took what didnt belong to them, then cried foul when the much weaker palestinians started fighting back.

[bcb]

yes, because lebanon, syria, jordan, saudi arabia and egypt had many people of different cultures and religions, yet nobody ever lived in jerusalem, gaza, jaffa, haifa, nablus, bethlehem, nazareth and hebron. Those cities just seemed to sprout up as soon as the nice jews came along.

qed

[HPLovecraft]

He started it, no, he started it, no, he started it, no, he started it, no...

[VladtheImpaler]

I always feel stupid for opening these threads because inevitably it's always the same idiotic crap from the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" crowd... Yet

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by bcb

God, where do I begin?

IMO, your post equates to antisemitism.

You must be kidding me........lay off the PC pipe.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Haha, innocent. You are right, they should give up all their fancy weapons and do what the other side does, strap C4 to the sides of rockets and just fire them blindly. Some land on targets, some dont. If they happen to land on civilian targets there is a built in excuse - brilliant.

Isnt there some UFO conspiracy that needs someones attention.

There probably is a UFO conspiracy, you should check it out myk..

But as for the topic at hand, the way I see it is that the Palestinians are simply trying to survive, and firing back with what little they have. The Israeli's want them all dead, it would just look real bad if they killed all of them at once you know?
U.S. foreign policy seems to think that is okay. It really shows in the disparity between aid money/military help handed out to the Israeli's and the Palestinians..

[bcb]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

There probably is a UFO conspiracy, you should check it out myk..

But as for the topic at hand, the way I see it is that the Palestinians are simply trying to survive, and firing back with what little they have. The Israeli's want them all dead, it would just look real bad if they killed all of them at once you know?
U.S. foreign policy seems to think that is okay. It really shows in the disparity between aid money/military help handed out to the Israeli's and the Palestinians..

Why don't the Israelis just give them tainted H1N1 shots. Of course then, they wouldn't be able to drink the blood of the Palestinian children.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by bcb

Why don't the Israelis just give them tainted H1N1 shots. Of course then, they wouldn't be able to drink the blood of the Palestinian children.

Can't you come up with something original? Please.......

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

You must be kidding me........lay off the PC pipe.

Can you just give us a list of every culture/ethnicity/religion/sexual orientation/other abitrary criteria that gives you the willies?