Iranians Sieze Iraqi Oil Field

[peter12]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

True, but it's a problem that didn't really exist in Iraq until the aforementioned military presence in the Gulf. The situation feeds off of itself now.

However it may have happened, I don't think it's legitimate to claim that the only reason for jihadist terrorism is the resistance to it. This confrontation was going to happen regardless of the time and place. If it wasn't in Iraq, there would be further concentration in Afghanistan.

The big difference between the Americans and the jihadists is that the Americans go to great pains to avoid civilian casualties, the jihadists don't. The vast majority of civilian death in both Iraq and Afghanistan is due to Islamic terrorists, not the Western militaries.

[IliketoPuck]

So can the Americans step in for the Iraqi's and kick the Iranians out without starting a war with Iran? I can't see them starting another war when they already have two on the go.

[Red_Baron]

Helping this thread derail...
How many horizontal wells does Kuwait have now? Or do they just set up in Iraq now?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

So can the Americans step in for the Iraqi's and kick the Iranians out without starting a war with Iran? I can't see them starting another war when they already have two on the go.

I am pretty sure that the U.S. is still reponsible for Iraq's sovereignty. They aren't 100% a soveriegn nation at the moment. Iran is essentially pushing the Americans right now, moreso than the Iraqis....

[IliketoPuck]

I read another article that mentioned it was also an Iranian move to throw off investors looking at acquiring hydrocarbon properties in the area. Iran feels threatened by potential investment that would make Iraq a stronger oil-producing nation.

[IliketoPuck]

The area that Iran moved into has been in dispute since the Iran-Iraq war in the 80's apparently. The borders in this area are sketchy to say the least.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by peter12

As an armchair general etc... I think the Americans have to do something but are certainly confounded by the Iranian nuclear threat. This is a breach of Iraq's sovereignty and under any circumstances deserves a military response.

Meh, let the French deal with it .... I , as an American , am tired of policing those savages over there...

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Meh, let the French deal with it .... I , as an American , am tired of policing those savages over there...

Stay classy nicker

[Calgaryborn]

Iran sees Obama as a weak.

[HPLovecraft]

Iran removed their troops, the article says. Basically another muscle-flexing demonstration. A dangerous one, however. I have my doubts the people in charge in that country know what they're messing with. The US may be bogged down in two guerilla wars, but they can still unleash an unholy hell like few others when it comes to a conventional war and would bomb Iran's infrastructure into the Stone Age if necessary. I am still under the belief a war against Iran would be far more successful for the US than either war in Iraq or Afghanistan. Not to mention when Iran starts invading Iraq and laying claim to oil wells it puts the rest of NATO and the world in a bad spot, too. It starts to give other countries a legit cassus belli.

[CaptainCrunch]

Trust me, if the American's decided that they had enough of Iran and didn't care about the political costs, they wouldn't bother with a land war in Iran. It would be a combined Naval, heavy air attack. The goal would be to level any building taller then two stories tall, destroy any water, electricity and communications facility, go after their atomic energy production and try to kill the leadership from the air.

While Iran's ground forces are very strong and well armed, their air force and Navy just aren't good enough or experienced enough.

What would it take for the American's to take that step? The first day that the Iranian's marry a functional atomic bomb to a launch vehicle.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Trust me, if the American's decided that they had enough of Iran and didn't care about the political costs, they wouldn't bother with a land war in Iran. It would be a combined Naval, heavy air attack. The goal would be to level any building taller then two stories tall, destroy any water, electricity and communications facility, go after their atomic energy production and try to kill the leadership from the air.

While Iran's ground forces are very strong and well armed, their air force and Navy just aren't good enough or experienced enough.

What would it take for the American's to take that step? The first day that the Iranian's marry a functional atomic bomb to a launch vehicle.

I might trust you but, I'm not sure Obama has got the stomach.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think people might be doing the same thing that Iran might be doing in underestimating the guy.

Look, I don't particularly like Obama, I'm still not convinced that he's a great president. But anyone that thinks that he wouldn't pull the trigger if the sh%t ever hits the fan is making a mistake.

With the exception of Jimmy Carter, you don't get to be the president by being a wimp.

[Calgaryborn]

I'm not thinking it has anything to do with Obama being a wimp. I'm worried about his principles. He thinks he can talk the world into peace. For him starting a new military action would be a personal defeat and a betrayal to his base. I think he has bent over a lot more than he would like by sending more troops into Afghanistan. It's hard when reality conflicts with your ideology.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, based on the last 2 posts this thread is heading for a derailment of monumental proportions.

Lets not get on the WMD tangent shall we? Its a circuitous path through hell and just keeps going and going and going.....it makes stops at "Saddam Station" and "Osama Underpass." Lets try and keep this thing 'reasonably' on topic.

My point was that infrastructure and organization of anything in Iraq has all of the structural integrity as a ball of twine, and I might be doing twine a disservice with that statement.

In reality, neighbors could start encroaching on Iraq's non-guarded assets and the only people who could really do anything about it is the Americans and its a bit of a dilemma. Iraq cant do anything about it because they're busy with the Americans and the Americans cant do anything about it because they're busy with the Iraqis.

That might be true if the Americans wanted to invade Iran but I don't doubt they could do lots of damage and probably not loose an American life in the process, they would take out their defense systems in 3 days and their new drones alone would have the Iranian's hiding underground.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I might trust you but, I'm not sure Obama has got the stomach.

The Russians thought the same of Kennedy, who ended up running with their tail between their legs?

Because he wants world peace does not make him weak, personally I think the way he's stood up to corporate America shows he has big balls.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by T@T

The Russians thought the same of Kennedy, who ended up running with their tail between their legs?

Was that before or after Kennedy started the Vietnam war? Obama is no JFK. He's a Ted Kennedy at best.

Originally Posted by T@T

Because he wants world peace does not make him weak, personally I think the way he's stood up to corporate America shows he has big balls.

That was after he gave them how much money?

Today the biggest debt holders in America are GMC, Fanny, Freddy and AIG. They all are under Obama's control. Of course the biggest debt holder is the Federal government. Obama had the Congress raise the debt limit in February to the highest it has ever been and has already exceeded it. He now is asking for Congress to raise it again. I guess it is Christmas.

[SeeBass]

^^^^^^^^^^
An atheist is on the side of the Democrats

and a christian is on the side of the Republicans.

what are the odds?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by T@T

The Russians thought the same of Kennedy, who ended up running with their tail between their legs?

Because he wants world peace does not make him weak, personally I think the way he's stood up to corporate America shows he has big balls.

Yes, by giving them fist-fulls of taxpayer's money?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Was that before or after Kennedy started the Vietnam war? Obama is no JFK. He's a Ted Kennedy at best.

Your quite the history buff!
He played "russian" roulette with the Russians in Cuba and sent them packing.

One would think since the earth is only 6000 years old you would know a little of history! Much like Obama's inheritance of the Iraq problems Kennedy inherited Vietnam from Eisenhower, Eisenhower was the first to send US military to South Vietnam and Kennedy followed suit. But you should know it was Lyndon Johnson who sent most of the troops after Kennedys death.

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

That was after he gave them how much money?

Today the biggest debt holders in America are GMC, Fanny, Freddy and AIG. They all are under Obama's control. Of course the biggest debt holder is the Federal government. Obama had the Congress raise the debt limit in February to the highest it has ever been and has already exceeded it. He now is asking for Congress to raise it again. I guess it is Christmas.

He also slammed them to the US people, He's also the first one to stand up to the private health care people, something that the last 5 presidents only hinted at but never had the balls in the end...we'll see how this shakes out.