The Big Switch (PC -> Mac)

[Russic]

Can I just chime in and say of all the things Mac do well, the app install process seems needlessly complicated. I realize it's not complicated once you do a couple, but it seems that the first time anybody is tasked with installing an application on a Mac they give the Mr. Spock single eyebrow raise.

I have an application that (among other things) lets you drag the .dmg file to it in your dock, it mounts the dmg, copies the app to your app folder and ejects the .dmg for you. It seems kind of odd I need an app to break that process down. Just seems very un-apple.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Russic

Can I just chime in and say of all the things Mac do well, the app install process seems needlessly complicated. I realize it's not complicated once you do a couple, but it seems that the first time anybody is tasked with installing an application on a Mac they give the Mr. Spock single eyebrow raise.

I have an application that (among other things) lets you drag the .dmg file to it in your dock, it mounts the dmg, copies the app to your app folder and ejects the .dmg for you. It seems kind of odd I need an app to break that process down. Just seems very un-apple.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. When I first switched over, the app install process seemed very... unnatural...

I wonder how much of that was due to MS brainwashing me into thinking that I can't run an application unless many, many files are first scattered all over my hard drive in lots of secret little hidden folders.

The whole "just drag the app to your app folder and then use it" thing took a whole to get my head around, for sure. I kept trying to run apps from inside DMGs and then wondering why they disappear on me, etc etc. Very un-apple.

Incidentally, what's the name of that app you mentioned?

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Dude.. you quoted me!

Oh yeah!

[Barnes]

^ Busted!

The thing about ease of use is, not everything can be designed so that it is inherently obvious how something should work but really good design will make sure that once you figure out how it works, you will never forget.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Barnes

^ Busted!

The thing about ease of use is, not everything can be designed so that it is inherently obvious how something should work but really good design will make sure that once you figure out how it works, you will never forget.

That's actually a great point! I'm studying user interfaces at the moment, too. Perfect timing!

[Russic]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yeah, I'm with you on that. When I first switched over, the app install process seemed very... unnatural...

I wonder how much of that was due to MS brainwashing me into thinking that I can't run an application unless many, many files are first scattered all over my hard drive in lots of secret little hidden folders.

The whole "just drag the app to your app folder and then use it" thing took a whole to get my head around, for sure. I kept trying to run apps from inside DMGs and then wondering why they disappear on me, etc etc. Very un-apple.

Incidentally, what's the name of that app you mentioned?

Dropzone. It basically sits in your dock and lets you drag various files overtop of it and perform certain actions. Here is my current dropzone:



I can drag a folder over it and *big breath* have it auto-zipped and placed into the body of an email, upload text to a site and have a link auto-copied to the clipboard, install an app, upload a file to my public folder in my dropbox and have the url copied to my clipboard, drag an image and make it my desktop image, shorten a link and have it auto-copied to clipboard, send a file to print, send a jpg to my twitpic, turn on my screensaver or send any file to any number of folders on my computer.

I find it really helps with workflow. I especially like the ability to move files around to various folders on my computer.

Originally Posted by Barnes

^ Busted!

The thing about ease of use is, not everything can be designed so that it is inherently obvious how something should work but really good design will make sure that once you figure out how it works, you will never forget.

This is an excellent point. I run into this problem when I'm reorganizing a website navigation structure. People demand I change something and suddenly no new user can figure out where the hell they need to go.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Russic

Can I just chime in and say of all the things Mac do well, the app install process seems needlessly complicated. I realize it's not complicated once you do a couple, but it seems that the first time anybody is tasked with installing an application on a Mac they give the Mr. Spock single eyebrow raise.

I have an application that (among other things) lets you drag the .dmg file to it in your dock, it mounts the dmg, copies the app to your app folder and ejects the .dmg for you. It seems kind of odd I need an app to break that process down. Just seems very un-apple.

I found the OS X system for managing app installs to be refreshingly simplistic. The application just needs to be opened up from it's archive (.dmg) and copied into the Application folder. Most .dmg files come with a shortcut built in to do just that.

Far easier (at least for me) to grasp then the complication of setup and uninstall wizards. There is no ridiculous "Registry" to get corrupted should something go wrong (damn registry cost me many hours of my life rebuilding Windows machines...)

Granted there is the odd application that still requires a bloody install wizard, but those are getting rarer thankfully.

[sclitheroe]

The flip side to all of this is that uninstalls on the Mac are hit and miss. Adobe apps, for example, spray files all over the place. Trashing an Adobe app won't remove all of it. They provide an uninstaller, but even that doesn't remove everything (I know - blame Adobe for this one)

It's unintuitive that you can uninstall System Preference panes, but not necessarily the apps that rely on them for configuration. Worse, if I uninstall an app that's only a system preference pane, it doesn't trash those files, it just disappears from view.

If you trash VMWare fusion, you will be left with kernel extensions laying around, you have to know to re-run the installer to completely remove it.

The fact that applications like AppZapper exist and fill a valid niche role in the Mac world demonstrate that its not all roses. It's much better than Windows overall, but could still be improved. Unfortunately, if you were to improve it, you'd probably end up with some sort of install management system, and that would start to smell suspiciously like Microsoft and .MSI files...

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

The flip side to all of this is that uninstalls on the Mac are hit and miss. Adobe apps, for example, spray files all over the place. Trashing an Adobe app won't remove all of it. They provide an uninstaller, but even that doesn't remove everything (I know - blame Adobe for this one)

It's unintuitive that you can uninstall System Preference panes, but not necessarily the apps that rely on them for configuration. Worse, if I uninstall an app that's only a system preference pane, it doesn't trash those files, it just disappears from view.

If you trash VMWare fusion, you will be left with kernel extensions laying around, you have to know to re-run the installer to completely remove it.

The fact that applications like AppZapper exist and fill a valid niche role in the Mac world demonstrate that its not all roses. It's much better than Windows overall, but could still be improved. Unfortunately, if you were to improve it, you'd probably end up with some sort of install management system, and that would start to smell suspiciously like Microsoft and .MSI files...

Yeah the uninstall thing can be a real source of frustration at times. Especially when upgrading an app causes problems and you have to then search out all the little plist files and setting etc in order to get a clean un/re-install.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by fotze

So Germans are crazy about David Hasselhoff and fanin80 is crazy about Apple products and House.

And Coldplay

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

And Coldplay

Yup yup.

In no particular order:

House
Apple Products
Coldplay
Californication
Zooey Deschanel
Isla Fisher
Green Eyes
Red Hair
Snow (the stuff on the ground)
Databases
Starbucks (grande pike place with room)
Tim Hortons (large double-double)
Brussel Sprouts
24
Chick Flicks
Mini Coopers
TVR Cerberas
April Wine
Early Metallica
Slayer
Billy Joel
The Beatles
U2
Rachel Weisz
Pho

There you go. Just a random list of some of my favourite things.

Man. I'm gunna have to start signing autographs pretty soon.

[KTrain]

No particular order or not. House before Apple products?

You sicken me.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yup yup.

In no particular order:

House
Apple Products
Coldplay
Californication
Zooey Deschanel
Isla Fisher
Green Eyes
Red Hair
Snow (the stuff on the ground)
Databases
Starbucks (grande pike place with room)
Tim Hortons (large double-double)
Brussel Sprouts
24
Chick Flicks
Mini Coopers
TVR Cerberas
April Wine
Early Metallica
Slayer
Billy Joel
The Beatles
U2
Rachel Weisz
Pho

There you go. Just a random list of some of my favourite things.

Man. I'm gunna have to start signing autographs pretty soon.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by KTrain

No particular order or not. House before Apple products?

You sicken me.

Haha. Nice.

[Jedi Ninja]

^^ Isn't the list missing something fairly obvious.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja

^^ Isn't the list missing something fairly obvious.

Such as?

[Russic]

I love that you had to specify that the Snow you like is the stuff on the ground.



I really like appzapper. There is something very juvenile yet awesome about an app that has really cool sounds. Sometimes I like deleting an app just to hear it fry. The locking and unlocking of 1password also gets honourable mention.

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Such as?

Calgary Flames???

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Mccree

Calgary Flames???

SNAAAAAAP!

Maybe he's a closet Oiler's fan? (I'm gonna burn in hell for that).

@FanIn80: Here's the question - MySQL, PostGRES or Oracle? Databases is a big term (Access does not count)

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Mccree

Calgary Flames???

Whoa. Haha whoops.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by llama64

SNAAAAAAP!

Maybe he's a closet Oiler's fan? (I'm gonna burn in hell for that).

@FanIn80: Here's the question - MySQL, PostGRES or Oracle? Databases is a big term (Access does not count)

Haha I can't believe I forgot the Flames.

Embarassingly enough, I got my into to DBs with Access. I worked tech support for a company that built a VB app on top of an Access 97 db.

I'm a mysql guy now though. I mean, technically I'm a student, but mysql is my most comfortable environment so far. It's really geeky, I know, but for some reason I just really like building and working with databases.