Overpopulation

[the_only_turek_fan]

My apologies if this has been posted, but did anyone see this beauty by Diane Francis of the National Post?

I wonder if you can get a carbon credit for not having kids?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...opulation.aspx

[Shazam]

Yeah, that's pretty much what needs to be done.

[Bill Bumface]

And then the world economy goes completely in the pooper with a smaller tax base to maintain all of the existing infrastructure, and the inevitable shrinking of personal wealth.

$ wins. Every time.

[Weiser Wonder]

Seems to me overpopulation would work itself out over time.

[GreenLantern]

A few years ago during my studies we watched an interesting documentary called Water Wars. They talk about the future state of fresh water, how the Bush family has been buying up land that occupy aquifers, and what is currently being done to help prepare for all of this. It was a very interesting movie, incredibly bias, but you can always take something good away from documentaries like that.

In the film, they indicated that the reason the Bush family bought up all of this land in Paraguay was because under neath it was one of the largest aquifers in the world. At the time, nobody could seem to figure it out and everyone looked at it from a political stand point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaran%C3%AD_Aquifer

I am in no way saying I agree with the video or anything of that nature, but I am saying it was an interesting watch and all Canadian done which was even cooler.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

And then the world economy goes completely in the pooper with a smaller tax base to maintain all of the existing infrastructure, and the inevitable shrinking of personal wealth.

$ wins. Every time.

Rich countries have a very low birth rate. Poor countries have a very high birth rate.

Typically as a country's government puts in programs such as pensions, unemployment insurance and welfare, the birth rate plummets.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

My apologies if this has been posted, but did anyone see this beauty by Diane Francis of the National Post?

I wonder if you can get a carbon credit for not having kids?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...opulation.aspx

If we all became Vegans and got rid of global cow flatulence, we'd be off to the races.

Cowperson

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

If we all became Vegans and got rid of global cow flatulence, we'd be off to the races.

Cowperson

Either that or the cows would run wild and rule the Earth.

[HotHotHeat]

I think a lot of the problems we face in the future (overpopulation, water privatization, climate change) are, unfortunately, overly complicated by capitalism.

In these countries where overpopulation is going to be a real problem, India and China being the main two, their economic growth is a huge part of the motivation to grow the population. They desire things (personal wealth, luxuries) that are, on a scale that large, completely unattainable.

It's been said 100 times, but water is the oil of the next century. It's scary to think the single most required aspect of life on this planet is going to become a tradable commodity. The most amazing part right now is how quietly the corporate world is preparing itself to take over the watersheds of North America and elsewhere.

As for climate change, I'm sure the greed of business will find some way to benefit from it.

This isn't to say ending capitalism would end these problems, more just that the rapid pace we've lived at for the past 100 years simply cannot continue.

It also seems pretty obvious that we have to stop eating beef and quit growing corn.

Who knows.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

This isn't to say ending capitalism would end these problems, more just that the rapid pace we've lived at for the past 100 years simply cannot continue.

It also seems pretty obvious that we have to stop eating beef and quit growing corn.

Who knows.

Due to Capitalism, we have an obesity epidemic around the world now, not a starvation epidemic. We now have TOO MUCH food, not too little.

People have been crying about the end of the world since they realized the world's true extent - for centuries now. It seems like an easy calculation to make, but it's too simplistic, and doesn't take into account things like technology.

Besides, global population is beginning to decline already. In 100 years, it's more likely people will have to deal with not enough people, and not enough of those people working, instead of too many.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I think a lot of the problems we face in the future (overpopulation, water privatization, climate change) are, unfortunately, overly complicated by capitalism.

In these countries where overpopulation is going to be a real problem, India and China being the main two, their economic growth is a huge part of the motivation to grow the population. They desire things (personal wealth, luxuries) that are, on a scale that large, completely unattainable.

It's been said 100 times, but water is the oil of the next century. It's scary to think the single most required aspect of life on this planet is going to become a tradable commodity. The most amazing part right now is how quietly the corporate world is preparing itself to take over the watersheds of North America and elsewhere.

As for climate change, I'm sure the greed of business will find some way to benefit from it.

This isn't to say ending capitalism would end these problems, more just that the rapid pace we've lived at for the past 100 years simply cannot continue.

It also seems pretty obvious that we have to stop eating beef and quit growing corn.

Who knows.

Yeah, capitalism is the problem - Raul Castro and Chavez will take care of things...

[Devils'Advocate]

We've had this discussion before, so I'm typing stuff here that I've typed several times, but I'll try to do it concisely... mostly because my lunch break is already over.

#1) Overpopulation is the cry of the west. "All these environmental problems are caused by those people over there that won't control their population!!! Bad bad people OVER THERE are causing the problem. Not me! It's them!!" This completely ignores that we consume about 10 times the resources as most in the developing world. As per cowperson's suggestion, I did try to be vegan, but soy cheese destroys a good pizza. But I drink soy milk on my cereal and in recipies. So I'm almost there. And it doesn't have to be diet. There are many ways we can choose to reduce our consumption of resources. But I doubt many people want to. So if you don't want to, fine. But don't yell "It's all overpopulation! It's all their fault!".

#2) I think the solution to the overpopulation problem is two-fold. First WOMEN'S RIGHTS!!!! That is absolutely foremost! Women who are educated, who can read, who can enter the workforce - they are the most likely to seek out birth control. And less likely to be baby-factories. I couldn't decide whether to cry or put my fist through a wall when Afghanistan was passing that law requiring wives to put out whenever their husbands demanded it. But that is the way it is in many parts of the world. Which is why when I adopted my foster children from Plan Canada, I requested to adopt two girls to ensure they got to school. The boys get to go anyway; I wanted to make sure that at least the two girls I am supporting get to go too.

The second part is SHARING OUR WEALTH. I know that's not a popular measure. "We're just going to give our money to warlords and corrupt politicians". Yeah, well, we need to find a BETTER WAY of sharing our wealth other than handing it off to corrupt leaders. Because until people are able to make a decent living, they are going to pump out as many children as they can in hopes that one of them is able to make a decent living and take care of their parents in their old age. There are reasons why birth rates are low in rich countries and high in poor countries and access to birth control is not the only reason.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

The solution can be found in the Mark of Gideon!!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I think a lot of the problems we face in the future (overpopulation, water privatization, climate change) are, unfortunately, overly complicated by capitalism.

China underwent massive surges in population when they were a hardcore centralized government. Russia also had population surges before the wall fell. I think that child birth increases have more to do with having no consumer goods and poor quality state supplied condoms then free enterprise. Canada the U.S. Great Britian and other developed capitalist nations seem to have neutral or very small population growths. If anything I think that population growths could be mapped based on the success of a countries economy. It seems to me that most people in a first world economy want to limit family sizes for economic reasons, and family planning is better as oppossed to those in the third world where a bigger family means more hands to help out the family.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

In these countries where overpopulation is going to be a real problem, India and China being the main two, their economic growth is a huge part of the motivation to grow the population. They desire things (personal wealth, luxuries) that are, on a scale that large, completely unattainable.

I don't know if I really agree that the two large families and economic prosperity are linked. I think its more along the line of tradition and family growth are linked. If someone desires personal wealth and luxuries then you're really not going to have a big family, you're going to limit the mouths to feed. Whereas in developing nations where traditions dictate that the woman is soley a baby incubator you're going to have a large family and you're priorites aren't as focused around big screen T.V.'s.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

It's been said 100 times, but water is the oil of the next century. It's scary to think the single most required aspect of life on this planet is going to become a tradable commodity. The most amazing part right now is how quietly the corporate world is preparing itself to take over the watersheds of North America and elsewhere.

I agree markets are set by demand, and water will be in demand. It would be irresponsible of a company not to look at water and thing $3.00 a half litre. At some point we're either going to see a boost in exploration of more water on this planet, or mass de'salination of ocean water, or we're going to invade the peacefull neutralions of omicron perci 6 and take their water.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

As for climate change, I'm sure the greed of business will find some way to benefit from it.

And that hasn't started happening already? Wait until the carbon credit trading market really starts in full force in Europe, it'll be worse then Enron who manufactured blackouts to boost profits.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

This isn't to say ending capitalism would end these problems, more just that the rapid pace we've lived at for the past 100 years simply cannot continue.

I doubt that ending capitalism would solve anything. Mankinds greatest leaps forward in terms of sciences, engineering, electronics etc usually happen in a Capalism system.

The biggest drag on a capitalistic system is the very people that serve the system.

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

It also seems pretty obvious that we have to stop eating beef and quit growing corn.

Who knows.

Or start eating people, hey its an obvious solution, the average person is 98% water, we need to start breeding human stock who can be effectively butchered for their fresh tasty water and beef jerky.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Or start eating people, hey its an obvious solution, the average person is 98% water, we need to start breeding human stock who can be effectively butchered for their fresh tasty water and beef jerky.

In Kenya, they've started on the albinos because they are apparently the tastiest...

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

In Kenya, they've started on the albinos because they are apparently the tastiest...

White meat is the most tender.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Yeah, capitalism is the problem - Raul Castro and Chavez will take care of things...

How to Build a 1st-World Country (in 12 easy steps)

How do you turn a 3rd-world developing nation into a 1st-world developed nation? It actually isn’t that hard. In fact, it is so simple it can be explained in a blog-length essay. You need twelve conditions. I call them the Developing Dirty Dozen:

1. Property rights.
2. The rule of law.
3. Economic stability through a secure and trustworthy banking and monetary system.
4. A reliable infrastructure and the freedom to move about the country.
5. Freedom of speech and the press.
6. Freedom of association.
7. Mass education.
8. Protection of civil liberties.
9. A robust military for protection of liberties from attacks by other states.
10. A potent police force for protection of freedoms from attacks by other people within the state.
11. A viable legislative system for establishing fair and just laws.
12. An effective judicial system for the equitable enforcement of those fair and just laws.

http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/...operty-rights/

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Burninator

How to Build a 1st-World Country (in 12 easy steps)

How do you turn a 3rd-world developing nation into a 1st-world developed nation? It actually isn’t that hard. In fact, it is so simple it can be explained in a blog-length essay. You need twelve conditions. I call them the Developing Dirty Dozen:

1. Property rights.
2. The rule of law.
3. Economic stability through a secure and trustworthy banking and monetary system.
4. A reliable infrastructure and the freedom to move about the country.
5. Freedom of speech and the press.
6. Freedom of association.
7. Mass education.
8. Protection of civil liberties.
9. A robust military for protection of liberties from attacks by other states.
10. A potent police force for protection of freedoms from attacks by other people within the state.
11. A viable legislative system for establishing fair and just laws.
12. An effective judicial system for the equitable enforcement of those fair and just laws.

http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/...operty-rights/

Um, I think writing it down is easy...actually doing it is a touch harder.

Edit: But I still like your post and it is neat to see a recipe like that articulated so succinctly.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Burninator

How to Build a 1st-World Country (in 12 easy steps)

How do you turn a 3rd-world developing nation into a 1st-world developed nation? It actually isn’t that hard. In fact, it is so simple it can be explained in a blog-length essay. You need twelve conditions. I call them the Developing Dirty Dozen:

1. Property rights.
2. The rule of law.
3. Economic stability through a secure and trustworthy banking and monetary system.
4. A reliable infrastructure and the freedom to move about the country.
5. Freedom of speech and the press.
6. Freedom of association.
7. Mass education.
8. Protection of civil liberties.
9. A robust military for protection of liberties from attacks by other states.
10. A potent police force for protection of freedoms from attacks by other people within the state.
11. A viable legislative system for establishing fair and just laws.
12. An effective judicial system for the equitable enforcement of those fair and just laws.

http://trueslant.com/michaelshermer/...operty-rights/

7 is an important step - especially, the education of women.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Um, I think writing it down is easy...actually doing it is a touch harder.

Edit: But I still like your post and it is neat to see a recipe like that articulated so succinctly.

Oh I agree and the author knows that too. From the first paragraph...

Of course, we should remember what the sage pop philosopher Yogi Berra once said: “In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.” Let’s call this Yogi’s Maxim. In theory, just implement the Developing Dirty Dozen. In practice, this might not be so easy. I recommend starting with just the first one: property rights. And the playbook on how to do so is already written: Prosperity Unbound: Building Property Markets with Trust (Palgrave Macmillan, 2007) by former World Bank economist Elena Panaritis, now working with developing nations around the world to build trust through property rights.