60 mhz vs 120 and plasma vs LCD

[GoinAllTheWay]

Are plasmas cheaper to build than LCD? That's a pretty low price for a 50" TV. After reading this post I think I will look at some plasma tv's.

What kind of things should you look for in terms of features? With LCD's I was looking at response times, 60 vs 120 Hz, contrast ratio, viewing angles. I'll be starting fresh here. Looks like plasma tv's have like 600 hz going on, is that the standard for plasma?

[TheU]

for plasma, the hz and such arent really a big deal as they're quite standard across the board at 600 from what ive read. the thing is, its totqally fluid motion. lcd has lag because it takes time to shut off the pixel, where as with plasma that problem doesnt exist. if you're looking at plasma, i highly recommend the one i got, as its beautiful picture quality plus a really great price. also, make sure to get 1080p... might as well take advantage of the blue ray and such.

[Option84]

Ok. first of all, it's NOT the 120 hz refresh rate that makes things seem smoother or give it that "soap opera" effect. All that 120hz does is double the amount of frames possible, but if the source is the same, the result will look the same since frames will just be repeated. (1,2,3 or 1,1,2,2,3,3). The reason 120hz LCD TV's look weird and too smooth sometimes is because of the interpolation method that different manufacturers use to artificially generate fake in between frames that are usually given away by displayed artifacts (pixilization). Usually the interpolation methods and 120hz options can be independently turned on or off in most TVs. However, if you plan to watch blu-rays, I would suggest 120hz if you are going LCD, since blu-rays output at the natural theatre frame rate of 24 frames per sec. Since 60hz is not divisable by 24, there will be a 3:2 pull down meaning you will see stutter since one frame will be shown 3 times, and the next 2 times, and so on. However this is not a problem with 120hz obviously since 120 is divisable by 24.

[ma-skis.com]

What brands are worth looking at,

I know sony as per usual, but for more a cheaper person like myself i know samsung is good and insignia is the best of the bottom, any other ideas?

[TimSJ]

I finally bit the bullet and bought a Panasonic 50 inch S1 on Friday after trying to figure out for almost a year what i want. I have no idea if it is the right one or not but I Got it all set up over the weekend and i am very happy with it so far.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Option84

Ok. first of all, it's NOT the 120 hz refresh rate that makes things seem smoother or give it that "soap opera" effect. All that 120hz does is double the amount of frames possible, but if the source is the same, the result will look the same since frames will just be repeated. (1,2,3 or 1,1,2,2,3,3). The reason 120hz LCD TV's look weird and too smooth sometimes is because of the interpolation method that different manufacturers use to artificially generate fake in between frames that are usually given away by displayed artifacts (pixilization). Usually the interpolation methods and 120hz options can be independently turned on or off in most TVs. However, if you plan to watch blu-rays, I would suggest 120hz if you are going LCD, since blu-rays output at the natural theatre frame rate of 24 frames per sec. Since 60hz is not divisable by 24, there will be a 3:2 pull down meaning you will see stutter since one frame will be shown 3 times, and the next 2 times, and so on. However this is not a problem with 120hz obviously since 120 is divisable by 24.

Good post. 100% accurate. 120 Hz is good for blu ray movies for the reaons you explained, but not useful for anything being broadcast on cable or satellite. Motion enhancers are goofy and should never be turned on!

People claim that lcd's can be as good or better than plasma, but I've never seen it with my eyes. plasma is still the best choice out there, IMO.

[OBCT]

I've been hearing a lot of good things about Vizio lately. No personal experience, though.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by Option84

Ok. first of all, it's NOT the 120 hz refresh rate that makes things seem smoother or give it that "soap opera" effect. All that 120hz does is double the amount of frames possible, but if the source is the same, the result will look the same since frames will just be repeated. (1,2,3 or 1,1,2,2,3,3). The reason 120hz LCD TV's look weird and too smooth sometimes is because of the interpolation method that different manufacturers use to artificially generate fake in between frames that are usually given away by displayed artifacts (pixilization). Usually the interpolation methods and 120hz options can be independently turned on or off in most TVs. However, if you plan to watch blu-rays, I would suggest 120hz if you are going LCD, since blu-rays output at the natural theatre frame rate of 24 frames per sec. Since 60hz is not divisable by 24, there will be a 3:2 pull down meaning you will see stutter since one frame will be shown 3 times, and the next 2 times, and so on. However this is not a problem with 120hz obviously since 120 is divisable by 24.

Finally. Thank you. I was just coming in here to post something similar and to tell all the people that claim to see a difference in 60 vs. 120 that they were crazy -- good point on the blu-ray though, I didn't think of that.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

Finally. Thank you. I was just coming in here to post something similar and to tell all the people that claim to see a difference in 60 vs. 120 that they were crazy -- good point on the blu-ray though, I didn't think of that.

To be clear, there is a big difference when a tv has 120hz picture with motion enhancer turned on. It makes for the unnatural looking, soap opera looking picture that can kind of look cool at first, before you realize how fake and crappy everything looks.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by TheU

for plasma, the hz and such arent really a big deal as they're quite standard across the board at 600 from what ive read. the thing is, its totqally fluid motion. lcd has lag because it takes time to shut off the pixel, where as with plasma that problem doesnt exist. if you're looking at plasma, i highly recommend the one i got, as its beautiful picture quality plus a really great price. also, make sure to get 1080p... might as well take advantage of the blue ray and such.

I think you have talked me into it. Good sized screen, GREAT price. Already own one panel from the same manufacturer. Sweet.

[TheU]

for all the plasma gurus out there... im getting super paranoid about watching my plasma in 4:3 with the black bars on the side. how much do i need to worry about burn in?

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by TheU

for all the plasma gurus out there... im getting super paranoid about watching my plasma in 4:3 with the black bars on the side. how much do i need to worry about burn in?

I believe this is a big no-no when it comes to plasma TVs, and is one of the leading causes of burn in.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by TheU

for all the plasma gurus out there... im getting super paranoid about watching my plasma in 4:3 with the black bars on the side. how much do i need to worry about burn in?

on the first couple generations it was an issue, but burn-in has not been a plasm issue for several years, except for extreme abuse.

[Old Yeller]

TheU, if your TV is not from 1997 then all new plasma's have all sorts of anti burn-in features.

What you may see is a bit of image retention when you switch to something that is full screen, but that quickly goes away.

No decent name brand plasma TV built in the last 5 years will suffer from burn-in unless you're actively trying to burn something in (ie) leaving a video game paused for a week while the TV is in torch mode).

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by TheU

for all the plasma gurus out there... im getting super paranoid about watching my plasma in 4:3 with the black bars on the side. how much do i need to worry about burn in?

Far from a plasma guru, but if you're with Shaw for HD, there's a shortcut button just below and to the right of the numberpad on the remote. Toggles between standard, wide-stretched, and wide-cropped. Handier than going into the menus of the TV to switch it just for one show.

And yes, I know that those aren't the correct terms. Letterbox, anamorphic, whatever - you all know what I mean.

[LChoy]

My 2 cents on the issue. I'm by no means an expert, but I have been asking advice on the same thing when I was looking at TVs

First off, 60hz, 120hz, 240hz really only applies to LCD/LED TVs. The beauty of plasma is that the picture is projected almost instanteously while LED/LCD requires the individual diodes to turn on and off. Plasmas therefore don't have the problems normally associated with fast motion that LCD/LEDs do.
For just LCD/LED TVs, generally 120hz is preferred for those intent on gaming and watching Sports. However, be aware that it isn't just refresh rate, but each brand has their own motion processor that adds to the smoothness of it. A LCD TV at 60hz but good motion technology can be smoother than a cheaper LCD TV at 120hz. Right now, 240hz appears kind of over kill and the differences are too subtle for most people. Also, it can predispose some people to epilepsy

Lastly, the LCD vs Plasma
At the very top end, Plasma with beat LCDs in overall picture quality. They have richer colour and "True Blackness"
However, at the mid and low end, LCD has made significant gains to narrow the gap. In my humble opinion, the average LCD and average Plasma can have just about the same picture quality in their ideal conditions.
Things to consider:
- Plasma burnout, while still an issue, has pretty much been minimized and you won't have an issue with normal usage
- Plasma works best in dark rooms with little light. Even with antiglare technology, LCDs have better picture quality in rooms that have ambient light than Plasmas do
- Plasma is more delicate than LCD and harder to move. You can't lean them more than a certain angle or lie them flat without damaging the array inside. Plasma TVs are always shipped upright. This is important if you plan on moving it around
- Power output favours LCD, but Plasma power consumption has been greatly reduced
- In terms of market, Plasma is slowly being phased out to LCD TVs. Panasonic is getting out of the Plasma business although Sharp and Sony continuing to produce them. This may affect parts and repair

[TheU]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Far from a plasma guru, but if you're with Shaw for HD, there's a shortcut button just below and to the right of the numberpad on the remote. Toggles between standard, wide-stretched, and wide-cropped. Handier than going into the menus of the TV to switch it just for one show.

And yes, I know that those aren't the correct terms. Letterbox, anamorphic, whatever - you all know what I mean.

OK so I couldn't find what it is you were talking about;

on the motorola silver looking hd box do this:

-turn the receiver off
-hit menu
it will being you to a white diagnostic screen with black text
-scroll down using the buttons on the box, over 4:3.. using the right and left buttong change it to 4:3 stretch or 16:9 stretch.

now i dont have to worry about the 4:3 burn in, and after reading online, it seems that burn in on good quality plasmas is no more an issue than CRT was. just dont leave images on screen for an hour or more. i dnno why you would want to

anyways, with this information i will likely keep this plasma as the quality of picture is the best ive had yet for a tv and at a really great price

[Vulcan]

- In terms of market, Plasma is slowly being phased out to LCD TVs. Panasonic is getting out of the Plasma business although Sharp and Sony continuing to produce them. This may affect parts and repair

Panasonic is still going strong in the Plasma business. Other plasma panel producers are Samsung and LG and I haven't heard of any of those three abandoning plasma.

The best plasma maker and arguably the makers of the best TV, Pioneer has dropped out of the TV market but their models are still available for those with a fat wallet.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Panasonic is still going strong in the Plasma business. Other plasma panel producers are Samsung and LG and I haven't heard of any of those three abandoning plasma.

The best plasma maker and arguably the makers of the best TV, Pioneer has dropped out of the TV market but their models are still available for those with a fat wallet.

I thought that Pioneer was going to outsource its plasma panel manufacturing to Panasonic and still sell them under the Pioneer name. Is that still the case?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Draug

I thought that Pioneer was going to outsource its plasma panel manufacturing to Panasonic and still sell them under the Pioneer name. Is that still the case?

Doesn't sound like it although I've heard rumours that Panasonic has some agreement with Pioneer to continue with Pioneer technology on their own panels.

http://gizmodo.com/5148562/pioneer-e...-sweet-plasmas