11-21-2009, 09:37 PM
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#41
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addition by subtraction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
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yeah, i recall when listening on the internet radio feed in the past you could hear the intermission chatter as they were on commercial on the radio and didnt realize they were live online. as i recall, qc remembered to mute the feed their 2nd year, but i have noticed other ahl teams make that mistake as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
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11-28-2009, 05:58 PM
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#42
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Franchise Player
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14 games into the season, Manitoba Moose average attendance:
2008-09 - 7314
2009-10 - 7364
Give it time, Abbotsford will put up some great numbers in the latter half of the season.
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11-29-2009, 12:04 AM
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#43
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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One handi-cap that Abbotsford has is no local TV station and the Vancouver stations don't seem to be that interested in reporting the Heat. I don't watch much of the local news but I know one nights sports report on one station gave all the local scores from the WHL and the BCHL but no Heat score.
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11-30-2009, 06:27 AM
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#44
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary
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^^ Global usually puts together a decent highlight package if they are playing at home.
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12-02-2009, 12:22 AM
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#45
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Aug 2009
Exp:  
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Oh hogwash. The reason why the Heat are not gaining ground has nothing to do with the media. The local newscast features Heat highlights as much as any local team other than the Canucks.
The problem with the Heat is that people in the lower mainland strongly associate them with the Canucks' hated rival.
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12-02-2009, 11:41 AM
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#46
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondhead
The problem with the Heat is that people in the lower mainland strongly associate them with the Canucks' hated rival.
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That's what I'm thinking, especially since the team is brand new this year, everyone is very aware that it's the Calgary Flames.
I don't think a Vancouver Canucks affiliate would garner much interest if placed in Airdrie.
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12-04-2009, 11:09 AM
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#47
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK
That's what I'm thinking, especially since the team is brand new this year, everyone is very aware that it's the Calgary Flames.
I don't think a Vancouver Canucks affiliate would garner much interest if placed in Airdrie.
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That's a pretty fail attempt at a parallel.
Airdrie and Abbotsford aren't comparable at all in the slightest.
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12-04-2009, 11:51 AM
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#48
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Lifetime Suspension
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You know exactly what I meant. Abbotsford is basically Vancouver, they are a half hour away from each other. Damn near every hockey fan in that city is likely a fan of the Canucks, isn't it likely they aren't very interested in supporting their greatest rival's farm team?
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12-04-2009, 12:13 PM
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#49
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK
You know exactly what I meant. Abbotsford is basically Vancouver, they are a half hour away from each other. Damn near every hockey fan in that city is likely a fan of the Canucks, isn't it likely they aren't very interested in supporting their greatest rival's farm team?
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And yet the Hamilton Bulldogs are doing great as Montreal's farm team.
People either like to go to hockey games or they don't. If there was a Canucks farm team around here I'd buy season tickets just to boo them every game.
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Shot down in Flames!
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12-04-2009, 12:25 PM
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#50
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icarus
And yet the Hamilton Bulldogs are doing great as Montreal's farm team.
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Hamilton has a population of 500,000... And a quarter of Canada's population lives in that golden horseshoe (8 million, there are only 4 million people in all of British Columbia). I don't think you can compare Hamilton's situation to Abbotsford's.
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12-04-2009, 12:49 PM
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#51
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK
You know exactly what I meant. Abbotsford is basically Vancouver, they are a half hour away from each other. Damn near every hockey fan in that city is likely a fan of the Canucks, isn't it likely they aren't very interested in supporting their greatest rival's farm team?
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I've lived in Burnaby for 2/3 of the past 4 years so I think I'm well aware of the proximity of Vancouver and Abbotsford.
"Damn near every hockey fan in that city is likely a fan of the Canucks, isn't it likely they aren't very interested in supporting their greatest rival's farm team?"
Well there's a couple assumptions in there that you are taking for granted that I don't think really hold true.
Assumption #1 - Almost every hockey fan in the lower mainland is a Canucks fan.
That just isn't true. Vancouver like most major cities sports a lot of people who have moved from different areas of the country. Alberta happens to the be the closest province to BC. I saw many a Flames and Oiler fan at University in Burnaby, they weren't outnumbered by Vancouver fans to the extent that your "damn near every hockey fan in that city is likely a fan of the Canucks" statement would suggest. And of course it isn't just university that Canadians move to Vancouver for, there are lots of transplanted Canadians who have moved to the greater Vancouver area for jobs, family, climate, etc.
Vancouver is also sports a large immigrant population. Newly immigrated Canadians obviously wouldn't have a long running loyalty to a NHL team. I know some people who've come to Canada and adopted the local team as their own but you can't assume that everybody does it. And the local team for Abbotsford folks will be the Heat, not the Canucks. A stronger loyalty might grow even in Abbotsford based Canucks fans to the Heat because they watch them and cheer for them.
Assumption #2 - Loyalty to your NHL team means that you would never consider going to a different level of hockey that wasn't affiliated with your NHL team.
Abbotsford is like an hour drive from Vancouver. It can be worse at rush hour. Ask yourself if you can imagine a fan or a family of fans that might be Canucks fans, but would still pay to see professional level hockey, closer to their homes, at a more affordable price. You can easily imagine such a scenario. Some fans might feel so loyal to the Canucks that they'd boycott Flames prospects but that loyalty and boycott level should not be assumed. In my experience Vancouver fans on average are not as hardcore as Calgary fans. How about fans in Chilliwack that live even further from Vancouver? Would you rather drive 15 mins to half an hour to see pro hockey or drive like an hour an half both ways?
I get really sick of the overly simplistic argument that all fans who live anywhere near Vancouver must be die-hard Canucks fans that would never consider going to watch pro hockey simply because they must boycott the Flames farm team. It doesn't do justice to the reality of the population distribution in the lower mainland, the # of hockey fans there, the # of non-diehard Canucks fans, etc.
The greater Vancouver area has more than enough hockey fans to support two pro teams. And not every single person who lives within 2 hours of Vancouver is a die-hard Canucks fan that would boycott the Heat simply because they are affiliated with the Flames.
And those who make this argument really have some explaining to do when it comes to explaining the crowds at Flames games for Canucks games, Oilers games, Montreal games or Leafs games. Sometimes a third or a quarter of the Saddledome is cheering for the opposition. Strange since all hockey fans in Calgary should be diehard Flames fans right? Hmmmm maybe that is a crappy assumption to make.
Calgary does not consist of 100% Flames fan. This fact should be obvious to ANYBODY. Why then people try and make the argument that the greater Vancouver area is 100% Vancouver fans that will boycott any pro hockey not affiliated to the Canucks is bewildering to me. It just keeps getting repeated for some reason despite the obvious stupidity of the argument.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 12-04-2009 at 01:06 PM.
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12-04-2009, 01:37 PM
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#52
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Lifetime Suspension
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I haven't the time nor the motivation to write an essay-long response, but let me ask you this. If the Abbotsford Heat were the AHL affiliate for the Vancouver Canucks, do you think their attendance would be greater than 3500?
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12-04-2009, 01:43 PM
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#53
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK
I haven't the time nor the motivation to write an essay-long response, but let me ask you this. If the Abbotsford Heat were the AHL affiliate for the Vancouver Canucks, do you think their attendance would be greater than 3500?
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Sure. But that wouldn't prove your point either. Your point appeared to be that the Vancouver area is 100% Canucks fans, and that these fans are so loyal that they would boycott closer/cheaper pro hockey just because they hate Calgary so much.
A better hypothetical scenario would be if the Abbotsford team was affiliated with the Florida Panthers, or somebody who isn't a rival of the Canucks and see how that affects their attendence. My guess is it would have little to no effect. In fact attendence might go down because you'd lose out on all the Calgary Fans who live in the lower mainland area who watch Abbotsford games because of their loyalty to Calgary.
Sure Vancouver fans might show up in greater numbers to watch their own farm team. That does nothing to prove your previous assertions. You really haven't proven that the Vancouver area only contains Vancouver fans. Nor have you proven that Vancouver fans are all so loyal and diehard that they'd boycott pro hockey because it wasn't affiliated with their NHL team.
If the question was, "Would people in the lower mainland show more support for their own affiliate than somebody else's?" The answer is obviously yes and I don't think anybody would disagree. But these assumptions about everybody in the Lower Mainland being a diehard Canucks fan to the extent that they'd actively boycott pro hockey nearby solely because they are affiliated with the Flames are simplistic and completely unrealistic.
I think you more don't want to engage in the debate because you realize that you were making a massive and completely unfair generalization about a population of 2+ million people. It is not as homogeneously diehard Canuck as you appear to think.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 12-04-2009 at 01:51 PM.
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12-04-2009, 02:01 PM
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#54
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
A better hypothetical scenario would be if the Abbotsford team was affiliated with the Florida Panthers, or somebody who isn't a rival of the Canucks and see how that affects their attendence. My guess is it would have little to no effect.
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Reason I affiliated them with the Canucks was because you said that Flames and Oilers fans were hardly outnumbered by Canuck fans while you were living there, and that I was making a poor argument for suggesting otherwise.
Obviously that is not the case.
I believe that the Abbotsford Heat's affiliation with the Vancouver Canuck's most hated rival is dragging down their attendance numbers. You won't convince me otherwise.
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12-04-2009, 02:07 PM
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#55
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Lifetime Suspension
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Notice in my original post that you quoted, I said "especially since the team is brand new this year".
If the team sticks around for a few years and has some success, they will gain support. I never doubted that for one second.
All I was saying was that right now, this season, I think it's very fresh in everyone's mind that they are the Calgary Flames farm team, and that alone is hindering their attendance.
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12-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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#56
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK
Reason I affiliated them with the Canucks was because you said that Flames and Oilers fans were hardly outnumbered by Canuck fans while you were living there, and that I was making a poor argument for suggesting otherwise.
Obviously that is not the case.
I believe that the Abbotsford Heat's affiliation with the Vancouver Canuck's most hated rival is dragging down their attendance numbers. You won't convince me otherwise.
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Wow you need to learn to read if you thought I was saying Vancouver fans barely outnumber Flames and Oilers fans. My point was that a city is never unanimously cheering for a team. There are people who live in Vancouver who moved there and have loyalties that do not include the Canucks. If you cannot understand a point that simple, I dunno. Clearly here in Calgary we have lots of Canuck, Oilers, Leafs, Habs and more fans. If you don't believe me, go to a game involving the Habs, Canucks, Oilers or Leafs. Have you ever seen jerseys in Calgary that weren't Flames? Well then, you must realize that not everybody in Calgary is a die-hard Flames fan who'd boycott the Calgary Moose because they were affiliated with the Canucks.
I love it when someone says, "You won't convince me otherwise." Basically you're saying you aren't worth talking to or debating with. If a logical argument won't make you change your opinion on something then you shouldn't be discussing with people on a messageboard unless you like hearing yourself talk, lol.
I guess you can continue on thinking every single person in the lower mainland is a die hard Canucks fan who is actively boycotting the Heat. It just makes so much sense....
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 12-04-2009 at 02:30 PM.
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12-04-2009, 02:36 PM
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#57
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFK
All I was saying was that right now, this season, I think it's very fresh in everyone's mind that they are the Calgary Flames farm team, and that alone is hindering their attendance.
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Now you claim to know what is in everyone's mind who lives in the lower mainland.
You're funny.
For some people the affiliation with the Flames will not be a negative. For some it will even be a positive. Yes, there are Flames fans who live in that area.
Your continued insistence that everyone in the Vancouver area are die-hard Canucks fans who are so die-hard that they would intentionally boycott high level hockey that is close by simply because the team is a feeder team for a rival of theirs is ridiculous.
But I'm obviously done arguing since no one will change your mind about what is in the minds of BC residents. LOL.
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12-04-2009, 02:51 PM
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#58
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Lifetime Suspension
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Well it sounds like you've got all of the answers. Could you explain to me why their average attendance is sub-par then? I'm not being a dick right now, I'm honestly curious.
I can't think of any other pro team that got poor support in their debut year, especially when playing in a hotbed for the sport.
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12-04-2009, 03:10 PM
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#59
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addition by subtraction
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
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i know everyone tries to paint me as a jaded QC fan, but i think JFK brings up a good point. all summer we were led to believe that this team would be super successful. it seems the only people that posted were long times flames fans who happened to live in the area. that seems to be the only real group that was happy.
i think the flames/canucks issue is a problem. their attendance is pretty piss poor and with it being a new franchise, they should be blowing the roof off the place this year. we heard all about how sweeting had 4,000 season ticket holders lined up, how british columbia was hockey crazy and would support anyone, and how the flames connection wouldn't hurt. yet the attendance numbers just don't seem to back that up. they are in the bottom portion of the league.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
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12-04-2009, 04:51 PM
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#60
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Davenport, Iowa
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Flames Draft Watcher, I think a lot of what you're saying makes more sense than you're being given credit for, but you aren't explaining why attendance is so low if its not the affiliation.
Why do you think they aren't filling the place?
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