Support payments - Part II (first thread is closed)

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its funny so many men appear hesitant to pit the kids against the mom. But I've seen many examples where the mom does the opposite.

That's quite the generalization, isn't it?

[VladtheImpaler]

Boys, hear me now and believe me later, but there is a very good reason when you are single to avoid vaginal sex - there are two other perfectly good openings out of which babies do not come... though keep Boris Becker in mind.

[Ice]

Both men and women abuse the child support system. Its been my experience that I see more men trying to find ways to get payments reduced, hide income or just refuse to pay than there have been women taking the money and using it for vacations.

Its never going to be a perfect system. I think the best way to handle it is to accept its imperfection and do everything possible to keep your kids totally uninformed about the financial situation. Unless one parent is totally unfit, it is better for the kids to have good relationships with both their mom and dad. There's no reason a child should ever be put in the middle of this fight. I don't think a child should ever know how much support payments are or whether they're behind. There should never be judgments about the other parent presented to any child. Its not like an ex-spouse's opinion is without bias anyway.

My biggest beef with dads is when they think because they pay child support, that's all they have to pay. When its time for school supplies, or clothes, shoes, etc. a lot of dads have no desire to pitch in because they pay child support. Its a perfect example of putting resentment about the money to the mother over what is best for the kids. I get that it can be frustrating if you think you're paying too much, or if you think you're not getting enough, but if more people would make the kids their top priority, regardless of the selfishness of the other parent, the kids would be way better off.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

That's quite the generalization, isn't it?

I meant it in the context of this thread.. Where there were a couple examples of it.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

If my parents hadn't divorced and my Dad got a pay raise, I would have seen a bump up in my standard of living...why should I, as a child of divorce, be deprived of that? I didn't choose to be part of a family that divorced.

No one in this thread is disputing that. The dispute is what the mother does with the money.

In my mind, the dad should be well within his rights to demand proof that almost every single penny he is giving her for child support payments are in fact, going to the child.

Whatever parent is making the CSP should be able to demand this and be compensated for whatever funds the other parent is using elsewhere.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I meant it in the context of this thread.. Where there were a couple examples of it.

I think that men and women are equally capable of being vindictive.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I have been divorced for about 7 years now. I have shared custody with my daughter. My ex is the primary care giver. I pay xxx child support per month. That covers absolutely everything for my daughter. I have my daughter with me 50% of the time.

If an extra-ordinary expense comes up I discuss with my ex about it and we come to an agreement. The ex and I have never had any disagreements about money for our daughter.

We both want what is best for our daughter. We have no other motivation. We aren't out to get something from the ex.

Note. I can't stand the ex. lol.. I can't be in a room longer than 10 minutes without her bugging me. But we do agree on one thing. How we treat our daughter since we have divorced.

Glad to hear you were able to put your differences aside for the sake of you daughter.

[Regorium]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/ma...agewanted=1&hp

Fun read on how men get screwed by the courts even if their wives were cheating. Now this is only in the case of non-biological paternity, which is a different issue.

Back on topic, I think if there was a way to ensure that the support payments were actually going to the kids, then we would see more fathers with less resentment. I think there are too many cases where the father pays out the ass, and the mom blows all the money on herself, while asking for MORE money for the kid. Also, one of the cases in the article showed that the biological father came back, and the ####olded husband STILL had to pay for his ex, the biological father, and the daughter's trips' to Disneyland, all while the daughter is turned against him, thinking that he's a terrible person. If that doesn't build resentment, I don't know what will.

A trust fund, or some sort of intermediate to ensure that the money being paid is spent on supplies, programs that the father can agree on would go a long way.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I think that men and women are equally capable of being vindictive.

I think women due to their role as mother can effect the kids perception of their father more than the father can do to the mother. From what I've seen, not saying thats true in every case.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

No one in this thread is disputing that. The dispute is what the mother does with the money.

In my mind, the dad should be well within his rights to demand proof that almost every single penny he is giving her for child support payments are in fact, going to the child.

Whatever parent is making the CSP should be able to demand this and be compensated for whatever funds the other parent is using elsewhere.

Who decides what is going to the child? There really is no real paper trail to prove which income (from CSP or earned income) is going to support the child. If the child goes on vacation with his or her Mom, how can you prove that the money was coming from CSP and is it so wrong for a family to go on vacation? If the family was still together would they have gone on vacation? Isn't divorce stressful enough on a kid than to have to deal with this too?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think women due to their role as mother can effect the kids perception of their father more than the father can do to the mother. From what I've seen, not saying thats true in every case.

That wasn't what you were arguing though. You were arguing that women attack men post-divorce more than men attack women.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by fotze

What teams did your dad play for?

lol a little OT but that's ok. The Flyers mostly but spent his last season in Hartford. That's not really where my Dad made his money though. They didnt make anywhere close to what they do now back then

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I have been divorced for about 7 years now. I have shared custody with my daughter. My ex is the primary care giver. I pay xxx child support per month. That covers absolutely everything for my daughter. I have my daughter with me 50% of the time.

This is something that I don't get, if it is a 50\50 custody why is there still payments? If it is 75\25 or so I can see it because one parent has the child\children more and needs more money but if it is even then they should cancel each other out.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

This is something that I don't get, if it is a 50\50 custody why is there still payments? If it is 75\25 or so I can see it because one parent has the child\children more and needs more money but if it is even then they should cancel each other out.

You have to compare incomes. If Mom and Dad have similar incomes, there would not be payments.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Who decides what is going to the child?

Well, in the majority of cases, it sure as heck shouldn't be the mother. Spending money that isn't yours is tempting, easy and always spent poorly. I think there needs to be an intermediate, perhaps some sort of divorce lawyer that serves to ensure the money is being spent for the well being of the kid.

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

There really is no real paper trail to prove which income (from CSP or earned income) is going to support the child. If the child goes on vacation with his or her Mom, how can you prove that the money was coming from CSP and is it so wrong for a family to go on vacation? If the family was still together would they have gone on vacation?

Then there needs to be a paper trail. Every dollar of CSP needs to be tracked by the mother, and be reviewed by the intermediate or father. If the father sees $400 spa days, he should have the right to refuse payment. It is not wrong for a family to go on vacation. Perhaps it needs to be discussed beforehand so that the father does not feel resentful (maybe 1 or 2 vacations a year would be appropriate, and even then, 50% of the funds should be coming from the mother, while the other half from CSP).

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Isn't divorce stressful enough on a kid than to have to deal with this too?

I don't understand what you think is the solution. Do you truly believe that a mother can do whatever she wants with the money? Many times CSP payments are debilitating to the father, while allowing the mother to maintain her standard of living. Many times the mother begins to date again and gains the benefit of additional income, while continuing to destroy her former husband's life. The kid is entangled in this no doubt, but it is no reason for the mother to exploit the arrangement on the basis that it is "too stressful".

[Coach]

Originally Posted by troutman

You have to compare incomes. If Mom and Dad have similar incomes, there would not be payments.

Yeah, and because of this I forsee the custody payment problem dropping in coming years due to the generation of women as homemakers kind of waning out and more women having their own career as the younger generation (my generation lol) starts to marry and whatnot

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Then there needs to be a paper trail. Every dollar of CSP needs to be tracked by the mother, and be reviewed by the intermediate or father. If the father sees $400 spa days, he should have the right to refuse payment.

But how do you prove that she didn't earn that spa day with her own income??? It isn't fair that whoever gets the child (husband or wife) is now responsible for justifying every single expense. That is a lot of control to be given to an ex and could lead to a whole bunch of potential haggling and place further stress on the kid. Simply because a few people abuse the system shouldn't burden everyone else. That CSP is something that has been either court ordered (example of an independent arbitor) or agreed upon between the ex-husband and ex-wife and should be lived up to.

Divorce lawyers and mediators are certainly not free. Who is to be responsible for the expense of bringing in the lawyer to spend countless hours sifting through every single expense? That would cost several thousand dollars.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

But how do you prove that she didn't earn that spa day with her own income??? It isn't fair that whoever gets the child (husband or wife) is now responsible for justifying every single expense. That is a lot of control to be given to an ex and could lead to a whole bunch of potential haggling and place further stress on the kid. Simply because a few people abuse the system shouldn't burden everyone else. That CSP is something that has been either court ordered (example of an independent arbitor) or agreed upon between the ex-husband and ex-wife and should be lived up to.

Divorce lawyers and mediators are certainly not free. Who is to be responsible for the expense of bringing in the lawyer to spend countless hours sifting through every single expense? That would cost several thousand dollars.

Maybe there needs to be specific bank accounts for the child support payments. So when there is withdrawls i can be traced to what it's for

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Maybe there needs to be specific bank accounts for the child support payments. So when there is withdrawls i can be traced to what it's for

Does that mean that groceries for the children need to be purchased separately from the parents? What about rent/mortgage payments? Does a proration need to happen so that these payments paid on separate accounts? This is all so unnecessary.

There are bad apples but I generally believe that most of the parents with custody of their children act in the best interest of the children. A far bigger problem, IMO, is deadbeat parents who refuse to give their children any support.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MattyC

lol a little OT but that's ok. The Flyers mostly but spent his last season in Hartford. That's not really where my Dad made his money though. They didnt make anywhere close to what they do now back then

Post some pics of your dad as the hockey player