11-23-2009, 03:08 PM
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#81
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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11-23-2009, 03:08 PM
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#82
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
If there was no bible, would anyone know about "god"?
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It's too bad that this thread has gone from seeing a UFO to whether god exists or not.
As for seeing something, I have seen a UFO once. I was just outside of Vernon where my grandparents lived and was outside taking a look up at the stars. There aren't any streetlights where they live so the stars are pretty spectacular.
Anyways, I was looking up at the stars and noticed what I originally thought was a satellite. It was moving in an orbit type of movement so I watched it for a couple of minutes. All of a sudden the thing stopped, changed directions and then literally flew off at an enormous speed. It sucks because nobody else was around, but I know what I saw and it's pretty tough to explain it as anything humans made.
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11-23-2009, 03:08 PM
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#83
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
So statistics and probability can say there is a chance that aliens exist?
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Based on current calculations, the Drake Equation states
R* = 7/year, fp = 0.5, ne = 2, fl = 0.33, fi = 0.01, fc = 0.01, and L = 10000 years result in
N = 7 × 0.5 × 2 × 0.33 × 0.01 × 0.01 × 10000 = 2.31.Meaning there are currently 2.31 civilizations in our galaxy where communication may be possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
Keep in mind the drake equation deals with intelligent life which is intelligent enough to build a radio telescope. I would hypothesize we will find Extraterrestrials life in our own solar system on moons such as Europa or perhaps in the polar ice caps of Mars. This life would be classified as "non-intelligent" such as microbial life. However, this would be extraterrestrial life. And if microbes can develop on 2 independent monns or planets in one solar system, the probability would be exponential as to the number of other exteresterial life in our galaxy.
You're specifically asking about God vs. Extraterrestrials.
The point is, the existence of extraterrestrials can be tested and independently verified- we search for them umodern technology. The existence of God can not be independently verified. We can not aim a telescope at God and say "there he is!" Therefore, equating that you can't prove extraterrestrials exist any more than god exists is untrue because one can be proven, and the other can not.
Last edited by worth; 11-23-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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11-23-2009, 03:12 PM
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#84
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
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is it weird that after reading this i went to bed and had a dream about experiencing the same thing as the OP?
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11-23-2009, 03:13 PM
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#85
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worth
Based on current calculations, the Drake Equation states
R* = 7/year, fp = 0.5, ne = 2, fl = 0.33, fi = 0.01, fc = 0.01, and L = 10000 years result in
N = 7 × 0.5 × 2 × 0.33 × 0.01 × 0.01 × 10000 = 2.31.Meaning there are currently 2.31 civilizations in our galaxy where communication may be possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
Keep in mind the drake equation deals with intelligent life which is intelligent enough to build a radio telescope. I would hypothesize we will find Extraterrestrials life in our own solar system on moons such as Europa or perhaps in the polar ice caps of Mars.
You're specifically asking about God vs. Extraterrestrials.
The point is, the existence of extraterrestrials can be tested and independently verified. The existence of God can not be. Therefore, equating that you can't prove extraterrestrials exist any more than god exists is untrue because one can be proven, and the other can not. |
Actually, FoxMulder said there is more evidence to prove the existence of aliens over the existence of a creator god. I said what evidence is there to prove the existence of one over the other. To me, a mathematical equation is not actual evidence of the existence of one or the other.
Again, I believe in the existence of some form of extraterrestrial life, but there is no more evidence to prove it than there is to prove the existence of a god.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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11-23-2009, 03:14 PM
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#86
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
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Oh you are so funny.
At least there are pictures to support, ruins on mars.
There are no pictures of "god" or "jesus" or anything of that like.
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11-23-2009, 03:15 PM
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#87
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vancouver
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There is more evidence to prove such. The evidence is in probability and statistics as I said already. Since one can be verified by science, and one can not be, that in of itself is the requirement to state that one can be proved.
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11-23-2009, 03:16 PM
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#88
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
People worshiped a god(s) long before the bible was completed...
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Actually about 90% of whats in the bible was written on tablets 2000 years earlier 
God is imaginary, Aliens living on other planets in the universe is as close to certainty as you can get, whether they ever visited us is another story.
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11-23-2009, 03:16 PM
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#89
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
Oh you are so funny.
At least there are pictures to support, ruins on mars.
There are no pictures of "god" or "jesus" or anything of that like.
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And it's just as fake as your ruins on Mars, too.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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11-23-2009, 03:18 PM
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#91
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
Tens of thousands of UFO sightings.
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How many of those are actual UFO sightings and not something caused by sun spots, gas, clouds, mis identified airplanes, outright fraud. Until the airforce causes one to land in front of witness, I have trouble believing any of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
Thousands and thousands of people telling similar stories about alien abductions.
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Sure there are commonalities, however most people who claim to talk about abductions are probably pulling their stories from past stories like Barney and Helen Smith's stories. In a world full of internet sources and books written on the subjects how hard is it to fabricate something with a common theme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
Cattle mutiltations.
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Again, I doubt that this is actually proof, it could be a elaborate prank created by sick minded people. Kind of like crop circles created by man to get reactions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
Area 51
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Still waiting for actual proof of this one. Some fuzzy photo's from long range of lights with strange flight characteristics isn't proof of it being anything but a military test bed. Remember the stealth fighter and stealth bomber were first tested there and they would look an awful lot like a UFO. And the crackpot who claims to work there is an inconsistant and unproven story at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
Ruins on Mars
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Are you talking about the Cydonia region on mars with the monkey face? The one that was later debunked as illusionary when it was photographed with higher resolution cameras?
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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11-23-2009, 03:19 PM
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#92
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
And it's just as fake as your ruins on Mars, too.
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The thing is the formations on mars, whether they be ruins are not, are actually there. This is simply a sketch on rock.
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11-23-2009, 03:21 PM
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#93
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
Actually about 90% of whats in the bible was written on tablets 2000 years earlier
God is imaginary, Aliens living on other planets in the universe is as close to certainty as you can get, whether they ever visited us is another story. |
As close to a certainty as you can get without it being a certainty, it seems.
I just have difficulty seeing how someone with an open enough mind to believe in the existence of something that no one has ever touched, seen, or experienced can automatically dismiss the wide-spread belief in something else that no one has ever touched, seen, or experienced. At least, that anyone can actually prove, one way or the other.
It seems to me something that someone that believes in God is more likely to do...
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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11-23-2009, 03:24 PM
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#94
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder91
The thing is the formations on mars, whether they be ruins are not, are actually there. This is simply a sketch on rock.
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It's the Shroud of Turin, not a rock, and not a sketch.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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11-23-2009, 03:30 PM
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#96
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
As close to a certainty as you can get without it being a certainty, it seems.
I just have difficulty seeing how someone with an open enough mind to believe in the existence of something that no one has ever touched, seen, or experienced can automatically dismiss the wide-spread belief in something else that no one has ever touched, seen, or experienced. At least, that anyone can actually prove, one way or the other.
It seems to me something that someone that believes in God is more likely to do...
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There is and has never been one tiny ounce of evidence that a god thought of by humans is real...zero probability.
But with Aliens, just the sheer size of space, the amount of stars makes it a huge probability and as close to certainty as my pee-brain can think.
Feel better?
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11-23-2009, 03:31 PM
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#97
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
How many of those are actual UFO sightings and not something caused by sun spots, gas, clouds, mis identified airplanes, outright fraud. Until the airforce causes one to land in front of witness, I have trouble believing any of them.
Sure there are commonalities, however most people who claim to talk about abductions are probably pulling their stories from past stories like Barney and Helen Smith's stories. In a world full of internet sources and books written on the subjects how hard is it to fabricate something with a common theme.
Again, I doubt that this is actually proof, it could be a elaborate prank created by sick minded people. Kind of like crop circles created by man to get reactions.
Still waiting for actual proof of this one. Some fuzzy photo's from long range of lights with strange flight characteristics isn't proof of it being anything but a military test bed. Remember the stealth fighter and stealth bomber were first tested there and they would look an awful lot like a UFO. And the crackpot who claims to work there is an inconsistant and unproven story at best.
Are you talking about the Cydonia region on mars with the monkey face? The one that was later debunked as illusionary when it was photographed with higher resolution cameras?
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Im not even going to bother replying to this, because you already have your mind made up.
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11-23-2009, 03:35 PM
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#98
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worth
There is more evidence to prove such. The evidence is in probability and statistics as I said already. Since one can be verified by science, and one can not be, that in of itself is the requirement to state that one can be proved.
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Look, I believe extraterrestrial life exists in some form, but using the Drake Equation and saying it is somehow evidence is pure balogna. Almost half of the formula is based on conjecture and little to absolutely no proof. There is absolutely no way to actually test the formula, and absolutely no way to know if it's true or not.
You really think it is possible to know what fraction of extraterrestrial life, for instance, is technologically advanced enough to be able to let someone else know of their existence in space? How can ANYONE, at this stage in human existence, know that number? Is that not merely a guess? How can you plug that number into that formula and think you have actual evidence of intelligent, extraterrestrial life?
My point isn't whether there may or may not be life out there. It's whether there is any more actual evidence to prove that there is over the existence of a god.
Drake Equation or not, there really isn't. At least, not that the government is releasing anytime soon.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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11-23-2009, 03:40 PM
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#99
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Scoring Winger
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You know, I knew when I posted that that it would start something. It was never my intention to take away from the thread.
I do believe in God, and I do believe that we are arrogant to think that we are the only ones here. I believe that God loves so much that He very well might have created other races on other planets. Not all believers hold my view.
For me I find there is far more proof for the existence of a living God. I have seen evidence in other people's lives, heard testimonies of how God has worked in other peoples lives, and have experienced it first hand.
God to me is not some idea. To me God is a person, a person who loved the world so much that He sent His only Son Jesus to die on the cross for us, to atone for the sins of man. The penalty for sin is death (both spiritual and physical) and by dying on the cross He has given us the opportunity to have life and life more abundantly.
We have all these crazy ideas of who God is, and for some reason we can't except God but can except other things we can't see. Yes, if the Bible had not been ridden there would still be proof of God. For me it is in the stars at night, at the beauty in His creation. I know those views are not popular here and are laughed at, and I have never said anything in the past. But this is what I know as Truth, that there is a God full of grace and mercy who reached down to love mankind.
Aliens may be real, I myself have seen strange things. One day I was hiking with a friend and we looked up at the sky. It was a cloudless day, except for one very small whispy cloud. There was a light, just like a sat. It keep moving from right to left, and then disappeared in the cloud. It is strange, how do you explain that? A sat would have kept going.
We as humans quite often become arrogant and think that we know everything, that we understand how everything is done in this world. I think that the reality is that none of us really knows exactly how life formed here, or how it can form in other places. None of us were there.
I apologize to the OP for derailing the thread, that wasn't my intention, but frankly I think that it is a valid question. How can one believe in an alien that you have never seen or that there is no hard proof of, and yet deny a God who has had many eye witnesses for thousands of years, including the Bible. You don't have to believe the Bible, but it is a testimony of who God is.
In the end we all have to be willing to forgo our own understanding and except the fact that we don't know everything. I know I don't.
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11-23-2009, 03:52 PM
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#100
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
Look, I believe extraterrestrial life exists in some form, but using the Drake Equation and saying it is somehow evidence is pure balogna. Almost half of the formula is based on conjecture and little to absolutely no proof. There is absolutely no way to actually test the formula, and absolutely no way to know if it's true or not.
You really think it is possible to know what fraction of extraterrestrial life, for instance, is technologically advanced enough to be able to let someone else know of their existence in space? How can ANYONE, at this stage in human existence, know that number? Is that not merely a guess? How can you plug that number into that formula and think you have actual evidence of intelligent, extraterrestrial life?
My point isn't whether there may or may not be life out there. It's whether there is any more actual evidence to prove that there is over the existence of a god.
Drake Equation or not, there really isn't. At least, not that the government is releasing anytime soon.
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You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. The drake equation is a statistical formula to quantify the possibility of extraterrestrial life. Even if you put in the lowest numbers for all the values, you will still get a fraction of a percent chance of the possibility of extraterrestrial life.
You can not statistically quantify the existence of God. If you make a formula to statistically quantify God, N = 0.
There is a way to test the drake equation. That is to discover an alien civilization. Once you do that, the equation is verified and revised estimates can be made.
It is not a guess, it is a scientific hypothesis in which there is statistical evidence which leads to highly probably outcome in this case.
For extraterrestrial life, N >= 0.
For God, N=0.
If the only possible scientific answer for God = 0, then anything >0 is greater statistical evidence.
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