Calgary family negotiates NO homework for kids

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Regorium

A student that fully grasps a concept would've finished everything in class, or take 15 minutes to do a homework assignment. It's a bit of repetition but no big deal for anyone that understands the concept.

It is only people that don't understand the concept where homework assignment becomes "hours of work" where you need to get your parents involved. That means that it actually is quite beneficial.

From the context in the article, it really seems like the kids in the article fall into the second group of students.

I found it to be a big deal getting pointless busy work after understanding. I was a stubborn student and I refused to due work after the concept was understood. This cost me marks in high school and university.

In university in some classes I was able to negotiate with profs into having 100% of the marks being exam based but in others I was forced to losr 10% of the marks in the class. (Sciencey classes rather than artsy classes)

In the real world you are evaluated on results. In school the exams are an expression of your results. How you get there whether through reading, listening in class, doing repetitive problems shouldn't really matter. The sooner the system acknowledges that people learn differently and should be treated differently the better off students will be.

In this case i think most people could agree that if they are straight 'A' students they shouldn't have to be doing homework. Remember the goal is to educate students so if that is occuring while not having homework then the system works and should be encouraged.

If these kids are struggling then the whole contract needs to be revisited.

[photon]

Originally Posted by peter12

The public education system, outside of the sciences and math, is basically a joke anyway.

Kids beliefs need to be challenged through a reading classical literature and philosophy. It's absolutely sad how the humanities and arts have been watered down to mere geography and history, instead of focusing on reading, writing, and critical self-awareness.

We can harp on the parents of these kids, but really, they are just the most current visible casualty of an education system which depends more on comfort than knowledge.

I can agree with part of this, at least from my experiences.

One of the goals of a K-12 education (IMO) should be exposure to a lot of different things, so that kids can discover what they like, and what they are good at. And even if they don't like something, they can still gain an understanding and appreciation for it.

I wish I had had some exposure to philosophy in school.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

what about the social development of your kid? i knew a couple of homeschooled kids when i was younger, and let's just say they didn't respond the best in social situations

and extracurricular activities aren't enough. one of those kids i knew because he was on my peewee baseball team. the kid would focus solely on the game, never talking to anyone unless they spoke to him, and always the one sitting by himself quietly if the team went to Denny's or something

your kid might not end up being the next great genius by going to public school, but i'd wager they'd become a more balanced human being over homeschooling. i might look into some private schools to see if there's something that would fit your needs

Well, you've hit the nail right on the head for our greatest concern, and the biggest reason we are considering this rather than having made up our minds.

Our son already has difficulty relating to other kids his age, he relates to adults much better and that scares us a little. My wife and I see both pretty introverted as well and have a pretty insular existence, although it works well for us. We are trying to come up with a way of creating that social development that you refer to and know it would be tough, especially with the way we ourselves are. The ideal may be for our son to go to a school like Westmount or to a GATE school, but there's no guarantee of admittance to those programs even with a psychological assessment denoting giftedness. Ironically the biggest thing I'm concerned about is that my son never develop the poor work habits I had after never really having to push myself to get through school.

An alternative is a program that the CBE runs that apparently allows you to homeschool half the day and have the child in a school program the other half. It sounds like it would be a logistical nightmare, but would probably be a decnt compromise to encourage social development and teamwork traits that might be lacking in a pure homeschooling scenario.

[4X4]

12_34's post was brought to you via BB. Clearly.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I think that's the point. Don't tell me you think that extracurricular activities are a waste of time compared to school work?



Exactly. Kids need to exercise all their muscles. Brain, body, creative. Sitting there doing math homework instead of learning an instrument or playing a sport, IMO, is detrimental to a kid's growth.
Not all kids are going to grow up and go to Uni and be engineers. Some are going to do something like a trade or be a musician or whatever. I really can't believe how many people are appalled by this idea that kids shouldn't be sitting there at the kitchen table with school work instead of playing hockey or music lessons or boy scouts carving some wood cars.

The parents are sick and tired of life being so hectic. The extra hour at night is a huge hour to them, and I couldn't agree more. Think about it - get off school at 330, come home and play some driveway hockey or practice the instrument they're learning for an hour and a bit, now it's pretty much dinnertime. After dinner, they've likely got some chores like cleaning the kitchen, then it's off to scouts or hockey or piano lessons. By the time they're dropped off and picked up and at home, it's fairly late into the evening.
And if a kid is failing at school, maybe instead of hockey, they're stuck with a tutor. But really, a kid goes to school all day long. Can't the evening be dedicated to something that's not academic?

I, for one, think these parents have their priorities straight, and that if more parents were this cognizant of their child's upbringing, the world would be a better place.

I already thanked you when you posted this. BUT, I think your post deserves extra acknowledgement.

I have gathered from your other posts that you are 30ish, not married, without kids. However you seem to have a great grasp on the frustration and stress that is out there for kids these days. I sense that one day you will make a great parent.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

My kid is in kindergarten and has homework. It's 5 mins writing letters and drawing pictures that honestly he's been capable of since pre-school.

We knew this going in and like the idea. I think you can have an age appropriate amount of work.

Still. Good on the parents. Assuming these people have somehow managed to have reasonably bright, adjusted kids who aren't cutting up kittens or themselves then they get to make whatever homework decision they want.

On another front I'm surprised in all this there hasn't been any mention of summer holidays. I want my kids doing homework, but not hours of it. Maybe if we tossed the idea that kids need a few months off they wouldn't have so much homework? Do year round schools have the same homework too?

[4X4]

Heh, thanks for the man love, red. I have no kids, but if I did, I'd most certainly be annoyed if they were spending their evenings doing school work at the expense of activities that I think make them well-rounded people. Besides history and math, kids need to learn how to play sports, enjoy music, build model airplanes, tie friggin knots, do chores around the house, walk the dog, or maybe even learn the native language of their parents.
MAybe I'm biased because I got good grades and rarely did homework, but if I had a kid, even if he or she was borderline average, I still wouldn't place academic success above all the other things I've already listed. Equal? Definitely. Above? Why? A boilermaker uses minimal math, but makes as much as an engineer that uses lots of it (well, computers notwithstanding), so why shouldn't welding be taught in school?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

My kid is in kindergarten and has homework. It's 5 mins writing letters and drawing pictures that honestly he's been capable of since pre-school.

We knew this going in and like the idea. I think you can have an age appropriate amount of work.

Still. Good on the parents. Assuming these people have somehow managed to have reasonably bright, adjusted kids who aren't cutting up kittens or themselves then they get to make whatever homework decision they want.

On another front I'm surprised in all this there hasn't been any mention of summer holidays. I want my kids doing homework, but not hours of it. Maybe if we tossed the idea that kids need a few months off they wouldn't have so much homework? Do year round schools have the same homework too?

I am not sure if you are a bit confused about the concept of year around schools.

While they operate and stay open year around, your child would not be in school for the whole year. Holidays are just more staggered. So instead of having 2 full months of a traditional summer holiday, you might have 3 weeks in summer, 3 weeks in winter, etc. And not everyone is on holidays at the same time.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by 4X4

12_34's post was brought to you via BB. Clearly.

Yeah, ha ha...

Still can't post from my PC after the server move. I'm going to a full keyboard BB soon. I hate SureType.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by flambers

yah I doubt it, a high percent of the kids Parents are doing the assignments. Its obvious for any parent who goes inside a classroom.

In my view the school system has lots of teachers that are totally out to lunch.

I can see why some parents are moving forward to stop the homework especially in elementary or Junor High.

If the homework had a purpose I am all for it but to ask a kid to go home and color a picture... or cut pictures out etc.... It only makes me shake my head in diss-belief.

A few more hours spent on Language Arts homework might have helped with your spelling and grammar.

(Sorry ... couldn't resist)

[redforever]

Originally Posted by bcb

.......

And if a parent ever challenges my homework policy, claiming their kid already knows the material, I'll simply question why they are in applied, not pure math.

Being in applied math does not mean that they require more homework to bring them up to snuff. It also does not imply that they do not have the so called smarts to be in the pure math program. It merely means they are not in the highest stream pure math program because it will not be useful to whatever career path they have chosen. In other words, they will not be entering any post secondary program that has pure math as a requirement.

Those taking applied math instead of pure math will still get their grade 12 matriculation diploma upon graduation.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by redforever

Being in applied math does not mean that they require more homework to bring them up to snuff. It also does not imply that they do not have the so called smarts to be in the pure math program. It merely means they are not in the highest stream pure math program because it will not be useful to whatever career path they have chosen. In other words, they will not be entering any post secondary program that has pure math as a requirement.

Those taking applied math instead of pure math will still get their grade 12 matriculation diploma upon graduation.

this is quite true, applied and pure are just two different streams with different purposes, doing homework or not doing homework is not a fair indicator of what class they are taking.

[Antithesis]

Teaching now has become all about the personalization of the learning process and justifiably so. It can create more work for me on a day to day basis - and I'd not profess to be an expert in it - but it has been worthwhile.

Homework in my class - you'd have to spend a lot of time goofing off to have to work more than an hour a week at home doing your assignments. I hate marking - the idea of busy work seems so alien to me. Why give it? It makes more work for the teachers involved as well.

I give questions to reinforce ideas we learn about scientific concepts; lab reports to reinforce the scientific method and connect concepts to practice, tests, quizzes, and the odd 'other'. I suppose the closest thing to busy work I give might be questions like "look in this reading for the answer to question x", hoping to ensure that it will mean the kids have read it at least the once. Normal classes are way too busy to spend (waste?) time reading passages as a class.

Situations like this - an obvious breakdown between parents and teacher - make me sad for the kids involved. Parents and teachers should be a team, and if it's obvious that work could be cut down on a bit, the teacher should put aside their ego and be satisfied with their part in a job well done. I'm sure if the teacher was willing to meet the parents halfway, this contract may not have happened and the parents may have been more willing to trust a teacher's professional judgment.

I'd be happy to let a kid do less work if their abilities - and understanding of the material - were there. Unfortunately, it's not often the case (I've met maybe a handful of kids in my career that were 'that way') ... I think people think back to school and go, "Damn, I hated homework - it was so useless", without realizing there is nearly always a method to the madness.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by redforever

Being in applied math does not mean that they require more homework to bring them up to snuff. It also does not imply that they do not have the so called smarts to be in the pure math program. It merely means they are not in the highest stream pure math program because it will not be useful to whatever career path they have chosen. In other words, they will not be entering any post secondary program that has pure math as a requirement.

Those taking applied math instead of pure math will still get their grade 12 matriculation diploma upon graduation.

Applied Math and Pure Math are gone from the 10-12 curriculum after this year anyway; at least, they are being phased out. Grade 10s will no longer be streamed in that way.

[4X4]

What language are you people speaking? When I was in HS, we had Math 10, 20, 30 or Math 13, 23, 33 or Math 14, 24, you're too stupid for 34, so we just won't bother.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by 4X4

What language are you people speaking? When I was in HS, we had Math 10, 20, 30 or Math 13, 23, 33 or Math 14, 24, you're too stupid for 34, so we just won't bother.

Me too - and in some places (the Sciences), the numbering still goes that way. In many, it doesn't. Maybe they don't want the kids to feel badly about being in the 'lower' classes?

English 10-1, 10-2, 10-4 (that's the old 14 stream basically)
Social 10-1, 10-2, 10-4
Science 10, 14
(next year) Math 10-Honours, 10-Common, 10-3 (math for the workplace)

Seems like calling a pile of poo a pile of crap to me; same thing, different name.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Me too - and in some places (the Sciences), the numbering still goes that way. In many, it doesn't. Maybe they don't want the kids to feel badly about being in the 'lower' classes?

English 10-1, 10-2, 10-4 (that's the old 14 stream basically)
Social 10-1, 10-2, 10-4
Science 10, 14
(next year) Math 10-Honours, 10-Common, 10-3 (math for the workplace)

Seems like calling a pile of poo a pile of crap to me; same thing, different name.

Exactly, and that is just another thing that ticks people off about the whole education process.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Heh, thanks for the man love, red. I have no kids, but if I did, I'd most certainly be annoyed if they were spending their evenings doing school work at the expense of activities that I think make them well-rounded people. Besides history and math, kids need to learn how to play sports, enjoy music, build model airplanes, tie friggin knots, do chores around the house, walk the dog, or maybe even learn the native language of their parents.

Agreed... and learn to fish, know which ones are the tasty ones and which must be thrown back, how to swim, how to skate, maybe even the basic parts of a car or computer (depending on age). Most important how to have fun. I don't have kids but they got 8 hours in the day to learn how to write a letter or draw or build a bridge out of toothpicks. When they come home they have other important things to learn and do. In my opinion doing things with your kids expands their minds.

[18flames]

I was not accepted into pure math because of my lack of marks, had 0% on my homework, 96% on my tests and my final mark in my classes would still be 56%.
The school system is definently flawed, if it weren't for exams being worth more then your homework marks I wouldn't have passed.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by 18flames

I was not accepted into pure math because of my lack of marks, had 0% on my homework, 96% on my tests and my final mark in my classes would still be 56%.
The school system is definently flawed, if it weren't for exams being worth more then your homework marks I wouldn't have passed.

I don't think it's the the system, as the teacher is the one who defines exactly how marks are distributed. There is room within the system for a teacher to be flexible, it just depends on who you get.

It's a lot like getting a good lawyer/mechanic/anything, a bad one will screw you over, but a good one will work wonders for you, except you get to pick your lawyer/mechanic/anything, you can't pick your teachers. (really trying not to open a can of worms here.)