Who's getting the H1N1 shot?

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by Zevo

My wife's a nurse and manages the office of an eye surgeon in B.C.. She ordered enough doses for her staff early on before the hysteria and shotages were known. She had a few extra doses so brought mine home for me. I got my flu shot while watching a Flames game in HD on my 50 in. plazma while drinking a nice australian shiraz.

I want to wine about this!

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I hope you feel bad when children and pregnant women are dying all around you! Shame on you!

I think you're being sarcastic, but in any case I work in the hospital in Victoria so it was prudent to get it anyways. My wife is also high risk as she has asthma.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Zevo

I think you're being sarcastic, but in any case I work in the hospital in Victoria so it was prudent to get it anyways. My wife is also high risk as she has asthma.

Yes I am being sarcastic.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Yes I am being sarcastic.

I was pretty sure you were but with some of the over-the-top comments in here(didn't read the whole thing so didn't know where you stood) I couldn't be sure.

[KTown]

The people that are using the argument of not getting the shot because of the deaths are not very well educated people and are just living in there own little world.

Here is the reason why you get the shot and the only reason you get the shot. Majority of people won't die from this but the hospitals are full of really sick people because of the h1n1 flu, yes I agree that 75% of the people in the waiting room shouldn't be there because they are panicing over the media. For the people who say I don't need the shot well you probably don't but if everyone used that logic and lets say that .5% of the people need hospitalization (not deaths because many hospitalized people live) that would be 15000 people roughly in alberta. That is too many people for the amount of hospitals this province has.

Lets say we all take this attitude and lets say the people who are all anti shot need to go to the hospital for another reason, like appendicitus well guess what you may not get the treatment in time and you may die because of the people who think the shot is useless.

The shot is to relieve stress from the healthcare system so that the hospitals can deal with other sicknesses that aren't as common.

Use your head people, I have a friend that's a doctor and works at rocky view. The amount of people getting really sick from this flu outways the amount of people who get really sick from the regular flu. Most of those people she says will survive but they've asked her to not take any holidays and she's been averaging 13-14 hour days of work at 6 - 7 days a week. Last I checked I'd hate to have an extremely tired doctor looking after me, but this is what its coming too.

Get the shot when you can, not for yourself but for the health care system so that we can use it for what it was intended for.

This is not the regular flu, the regular flu doesn'tcreate as much hospitalization as this flu.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by KTown

This is not the regular flu, the regular flu doesn'tcreate as much hospitalization as this flu.

Ya and like people have been saying, it's BECAUSE it is much more contagious then the regular flu..chances are most people needing hospitalization would need it if they werent also protected from the seasonal flu.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by KTown

For the people who say I don't need the shot well you probably don't but if everyone used that logic and lets say that .5% of the people need hospitalization (not deaths because many hospitalized people live) that would be 15000 people roughly in alberta. That is too many people for the amount of hospitals this province has.

Well lets say that .005% of people need hospitalization; now there's only 150 people in the hospital. Dressing up a WAG and basing your behaviour upon it is not logic.

Originally Posted by KTown

The shot is to relieve stress from the healthcare system so that the hospitals can deal with other sicknesses that aren't as common.

The *shot* might relieve stress, but the campaign to get people to *have* the shot has added stress. Overloaded ERs can kill people just as easily as the flu; clinics not open for normal business due to being converted to flu shot centres are clinics that aren't available to sick people; crowds waiting to get their shots are ideal venues from transmission of the disease.

Looking at this from the narrow viewpoint of "shot is good! get shot!" is far too simplistic. Health care costs outrun inflation every year precisely because there is a (natural) reluctance to overstate the benefits of treatments vis a vis the cost to provide those treatments.

In theory, yes, if everyone had the shot it would save money, not cost it - but that is assuming that there is the infrastructure and organization already in place to ensure the distribution of the vaccine is timely, efficient, and low in impact upon available health care resources. Applying that same logic to a system that is not timely, is inefficient, and is high in impact upon available resources does not lead to the same certainty of saving money, or of slowing the spread of the disease sufficiently to warrant the cost.

Although, to be fair, I would assume that much will be learned about how NOT to go about a massive vaccination campaign in the future, which could eventually pay back the investment now. No guarantees, though, as it's easier to blame hockey teams and "selfish" individuals for the failings of a poorly run campaign than to question the assumptions behind the campaign in the first place.

[Jonrox]

Originally Posted by KTown

The shot is to relieve stress from the healthcare system so that the hospitals can deal with other sicknesses that aren't as common.

Get the shot when you can, not for yourself but for the health care system so that we can use it for what it was intended for.

The hype and fear health officials created has effectively already put a huge strain on the healthcare system. They created this disaster themselves.

And since you seem so concerned with the healthcare system, your efforts pushing people to get a flu shot would be better served targeting smokers, drinkers, and anyone who's overweight. Those people are putting many more times the strain on the system than those who don't get a flu shot.

Maybe we'd all focus on the effects of heart disease if everytime somebody overweight died of a heart attack, their picture was plastered on the front page of the paper.

H1N1 is trendy... once enough people don't die, we'll forget about it. Life isn't sexy enough for the media.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by KTown

The people that are using the argument of not getting the shot because of the deaths are not very well educated people and are just living in there own little world.

Interesting. Well people getting the shot aren't well educated people and live in fear of everything in the world.

Lets say we all take this attitude and lets say the people who are all anti shot need to go to the hospital for another reason, like appendicitus well guess what you may not get the treatment in time and you may die because of the people who think the shot is useless.

If there wasn't so much hype around the flu then the hospitals would not be backed up anymore than they normally are. It is the fault of everyone who made this to be a flu that kills everyone. It is not on the people who didn't get the shot and won't be.

The shot is to relieve stress from the healthcare system so that the hospitals can deal with other sicknesses that aren't as common.

Sicknesses like the sniffles and coughing that people are running to the emergency room because the people who relayed the message to the public screwed up and frightened everyone not helped the situation at all.

This is not the regular flu, the regular flu doesn'tcreate as much hospitalization as this flu.

This.

Originally Posted by Jonrox

The hype and fear health officials created has effectively already put a huge strain on the healthcare system. They created this disaster themselves.

Like even now KTown is telling everyone to get the shot and they needthe shot, but there isn't any left and there are people that need it more than me.

If we didn't have so many government officials, media and people believing the hype like they did then we wouldn't have perfectly healthy people lying to get the shot ahead of those who really need it.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by HOOT

If there wasn't so much hype around the flu then the hospitals would not be backed up anymore than they normally are. It is the fault of everyone who made this to be a flu that kills everyone. It is not on the people who didn't get the shot and won't be.

There is no way to prove that. Sure some people may be being overly cautious, but like I said before, how many lives have been saved from people going directly to the hospital when breathing troubles started instead of waiting it out. Either way, it's not like this thing is over now. In fact this week has been the highest for reported cases and ICU admissions.

[NuclearFart]

I'm seeing alot of armchair medicine and statistics going on here, with the majority of faulty interpretations coming from the naysayers. Not that an internet forum should be limited to those who truly know what they're talking about, but who amongst you naysayers is even in healthcare, to speak with such authority?

As many poster have pointed out in this thread, the primary function of the vaccine is preventative medicine, not treatment. If you want to talk cost/benefit ratio's, this is the most efficacious, especially in the setting of a bona fied pandemic. All the attention given by health officials towards H1N1 is to encourage you to get a vaccination, and educate those who erroneously still think "this is just like the seasonal flu and I'm young and healthy so I don't need it". I too am confirming to you, that this is different than regular flu, particularily in terms of spread and virulence within the previously healthy, young adult demographic.

Inept dispersion of the vaccine because of administrative issues, does not invalidate the medical reasons for getting the vaccine. Health care providers advocating vaccination are not responsible for for this problem, alot of it actually stems from decisions made by the former Liberal government.

Complaining about mass crowds in ER/vaccination clinics as being the primary transmitter of disease, is a bit of a straw man argument employed by the naysayers, but regardless is a small price of raised awarness. Not to mention health authorities have been trying to get the message out that 1) People who are already sick shouldnt be trying to get the vaccine immediately as it's not effective until ~2 weeks after, and 2) people who are sick are being told by health authorities to stay home (ie. isolated) and get diagnosed/prescribed treatment over the phone. Heck, they even set a record time in creating a seperate billing code for us physicians to do this.

Lastly, the statisticians quoting deaths or hospitalizations divided by total population, to marginalize their perceived risks, are making a big mistake. If you want to keep it relevant, you should be calculating adverse events divided by total population exposed, not against the baseline population. As we go forward into the winter months, and people get exposed at an exponential rate, what do you think will happen to your percentages? What happens to your numbers when you consider that it seems ages 20-39 are the second highest age group affected with adverse events? What about the fact that just under 50% of those hospitalized/ventilated/dead had no prior health issues? At what number does a risk probability become significant to you?

[Mccree]

For what it is worth. Took our kids down to the oval today at about 11:00 and where out by 11:30. No line up

[KTown]

Originally Posted by jammies

Well lets say that .005% of people need hospitalization; now there's only 150 people in the hospital. Dressing up a WAG and basing your behaviour upon it is not logic.

I am taking my best guess, look at the stats right now over 500 people have been hospitalized and its still early. Will we hit the 15000 mark who knows, maybe not.

Originally Posted by jammies

The *shot* might relieve stress, but the campaign to get people to *have* the shot has added stress. Overloaded ERs can kill people just as easily as the flu; clinics not open for normal business due to being converted to flu shot centres are clinics that aren't available to sick people; crowds waiting to get their shots are ideal venues from transmission of the disease.

Looking at this from the narrow viewpoint of "shot is good! get shot!" is far too simplistic. Health care costs outrun inflation every year precisely because there is a (natural) reluctance to overstate the benefits of treatments vis a vis the cost to provide those treatments.

In theory, yes, if everyone had the shot it would save money, not cost it - but that is assuming that there is the infrastructure and organization already in place to ensure the distribution of the vaccine is timely, efficient, and low in impact upon available health care resources. Applying that same logic to a system that is not timely, is inefficient, and is high in impact upon available resources does not lead to the same certainty of saving money, or of slowing the spread of the disease sufficiently to warrant the cost.

Although, to be fair, I would assume that much will be learned about how NOT to go about a massive vaccination campaign in the future, which could eventually pay back the investment now. No guarantees, though, as it's easier to blame hockey teams and "selfish" individuals for the failings of a poorly run campaign than to question the assumptions behind the campaign in the first place.

I totally agree that the vaccination campain and the media attention is all wrong. But I still think that when the time comes for everyone to get the shot, if you haven't got sick with H1N1, a person should do there part and get the shot.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by HOOT

If there wasn't so much hype around the flu then the hospitals would not be backed up anymore than they normally are. It is the fault of everyone who made this to be a flu that kills everyone. It is not on the people who didn't get the shot and won't be.

I call bull crap talk to a doctor that works at a hospital and they will tell you otherwise. The ICU is crammed with people needing to be there. I allready said there are people go to emerg that shouldnt' be going, but that is what always happens when the media overreacts.

If doctors acted like you and said well if you don't get the shot when its your time to get it and you get sick a month after that time with h1n1 and need hospitalization I won't help you. It's a good thing they are willing to help the people eventhough people do not respect what they are saying by saying get the shot. Since when do we not listen to our doctors?

Originally Posted by HOOT

Sicknesses like the sniffles and coughing that people are running to the emergency room because the people who relayed the message to the public screwed up and frightened everyone not helped the situation at all.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on this point. It is way overblown, but the fact of the matter is more people require hospitalization with this flu then others.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Like even now KTown is telling everyone to get the shot and they needthe shot, but there isn't any left and there are people that need it more than me.

Agreed get it when its your turn and help society.

[troutman]

Update on Desiree Jennings:

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1195

I have been blogging this week about the Desiree Jennings case – the 25 year old woman who is telling the media that she developed a neurological disorder known as dystonia two weeks following a seasonal flu vaccine. However, the video of her movement disorder that was made public was not, in fact, consistent with the diagnosis of dystonia or any organic movement disorder, and therefore it is highly unlikely that her symptoms were a vaccine reaction. Every movement disorder specialist or neurologist who viewed the videos and voiced their opinion agreed that the signs she was displaying on the public video were most consistent with a psychogenic movement disorder.

We were also careful to point out that this does not mean she is “faking”, that her symptoms are not real, and that she is not suffering from a genuine and debilitating disorder. Simply that the nature of the disorder is likely psychogenic and not due to any specific brain pathology, caused by a vaccine or anything else.

This is likely to go down as one of those cases that will forever divide the scientific community from the anti-vaccine community. They have clearly made up their minds, and their hostility and conspiracy-mongering toward other opinions is evident. While I just want to know the truth – let’s see all the evidence and let the chips fall where they may. Meanwhile, the information that we do have is pretty clear – this is not a case of vaccine injury, nor is it a case of an astounding cure by chelation therapy.

[Thor]

Exactly as he predicted, can't wait for Jenny to claim that detoxifying her cured the problem.

[Art Vandelay]

H1N1 a 'dud' pandemic, Ont. health official says

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/...ine-costs.html

[SportsJunky]

As I am now a highrisker (baby under 6 mos. of age at home) I went and got my shot on Tuesday at the Stampede Grandstands. The place was maybe 1/4 full and I was in and out of there in 20 min.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/...ine-costs.html

how much is the over reaction credited for the "dud" pandemic..better safe then sorry...wow gotta love the media!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/...ine-costs.html

A former health minister is saying this? Makes one wonder why he's no longer in a position like that anymore.