2009 Wear a Poppy Thread.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Puckinright

Captain Crunch, Giving is something you should do without bragging about it. Geez, are we supposed to think you are a hero for throwing in ten bucks?

So you bought this up twice, and I don't think I was bragging about anything.

The first time you wasted time, the second time you wasted air.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So you bought this up twice, and I don't think I was bragging about anything.

The first time you wasted time, the second time you wasted air.

The first time they brought it up, we pretty well assumed the poster is an arsehole.

Second time they brought it up totally established the assumption the poster is an arsehole.

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by icarus

Magnum PEI, Rememberance Day is not about the objectives or methods of war, it is about the people. Some of those people chose to fight but some didn't have the choice. To choose not to remember all who served is disgraceful, in my opinion.

I kind of disagree. Yes, it is mostly about honouring the soldiers, but there is always a certain amount of "look at us, we defeated the big bad Germans- twice!" (things like showing the Longest Day on tv, or articles in the paper exemplifying Churchill). The thing is, I find most of the actions taken by allied soldiers despicable. Whether its American GIs refusing to take prisoners, or bombers killing indiscriminately from 20 000 ft, or sailors dooming 750 000 Germans to starvation, I don't know how these people live with themselves. But really, its been 91 years since the First World War ended, there are only 2 vets left in the whole world, how long will this continue? I give it 20 years.

Originally Posted by icarus

As for Ireland during WWII, it remained neutral because its government was only willing to go to war once its own national security was threatened (as with the US), but it assisted the English war effort in countless material ways of its own volition (as the US did prior to Pearl Harbor).

Um, no. Ireland was neutral because it had recently won its independence from a tyrannical superpower, and wanted nothing more to do with it.

[Berger_4_]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I kind of disagree. Yes, it is mostly about honouring the soldiers, but there is always a certain amount of "look at us, we defeated the big bad Germans- twice!" (things like showing the Longest Day on tv, or articles in the paper exemplifying Churchill). The thing is, I find most of the actions taken by allied soldiers despicable. Whether its American GIs refusing to take prisoners, or bombers killing indiscriminately from 20 000 ft, or sailors dooming 750 000 Germans to starvation, I don't know how these people live with themselves.But really, its been 91 years since the First World War ended, there are only 2 vets left in the whole world, how long will this continue? I give it 20 years.

I think a lot of people struggle with it (see Jiri's grandpa, or some of the soldiers CaptainCrunch brought up). But to say their actions were despicable when there were millions being slaughtered in death camps is a little foolish if you ask me. Kind of a lesser of two evils thing. The Americans didn't take prisoners because the Japanese wouldn't stop until they were dead. Bombings happened both ways, and 750,000 versus millions dead in concentration camps.

Remembrance Day will continue for as long as there's wars, so I think it's safe to say it'll be around for a good long time yet.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Anyone know why they changed the center of the poppy from the old green color to the black one the past number of years?

They were originally black. Not sure why they went green for a while, but like NHL jerseys, the colouring is now as it was in the past.


Anyway, I was in Tim's this morning, and was rather sad to see that out of 15 people in the restaurant, only about four were wearing a poppy. The extremely disappointing part was that it was mostly my parents generation that wasn't wearing one - the people who's parents would have fought in this war.

[worth]

Walking in Safeway yesterday, there were plenty of people in their 40's and 50's who weren't wearing poppies. I don't really understand why they wouldn't.

[Puckinright]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So you bought this up twice, and I don't think I was bragging about anything.

The first time you wasted time, the second time you wasted air.

Captain Crunch, I can understand your embarrassment, and I know you "reported me" as the moderator sent me an email docking me a point. What a tough guy you are.

Hey, you can call me an ass or whatever, (original by the way) and you know what? I ain't running and telling mommy. lol!

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Puckinright

Captain Crunch, I can understand your embarrassment, and I know you "reported me" as the moderator sent me an email docking me a point. What a tough guy you are.

Hey, you can call me an ass or whatever, (original by the way) and you know what? I ain't running and telling mommy. lol!

Dude, you're a ######.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Puckinright

Captain Crunch, I can understand your embarrassment, and I know you "reported me" as the moderator sent me an email docking me a point. What a tough guy you are.

Hey, you can call me an ass or whatever, (original by the way) and you know what? I ain't running and telling mommy. lol!

I doubt that CC reported you. I can tell you that I believe several other people did.

Get lost. Your worthless garbage is not wanted here.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I doubt that CC reported you. I can tell you that I believe several other people did.

Get lost. Your worthless garbage is not wanted here.

And he's outta here. Gee, we'll miss his insightful contributions.

[bigtmac19]

Thank you Mods!!!!

[CaptainCrunch]

Funny story, I neither reported him or called him an ass.

I guess I did it in my sleep with my mind.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Um, no. Ireland was neutral because it had recently won its independence from a tyrannical superpower, and wanted nothing more to do with it.

Um, yes. Ireland as a small nation intended to remain neutral until such time as it was directly attacked, and materially assisted Britain in helping to ensure that it wouldn't be attacked.

I guess you also choose to deride those 180,000 Irish volunteers of the First World War (a time when Irish nationalism was at a peak)?

As for Remembrance Day, so long as people with your attitude remain in the minority I think it is safe to say it will persist longer than you will.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Funny story, I neither reported him or called him an ass.

I guess I did it in my sleep with my mind.

Psychological warfare...

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Funny story, I neither reported him or called him an ass.

I guess I did it in my sleep with my mind.

You didn't need to CC, there were enough of the rest of us who did I'm sure.

[Cowboy89]

Thanks everyone for the stories. It's laughable to have an opinion that this holiday is out of touch with the realities of today. If you have lived in Canada or any other country in the free world it's hard not to point to your lot in life directly being improved by the sacrifices of our soldiers.

Both of my grandfather's fought in WWII. One of them worked the supply lines back and forth from the front in France, Belgium, Holland, then Germany. He was a stoic man, never really looked for complements, thanks or whatever. About his time served: he would only speak of time on leave in London, Paris or other aspects away from the front lines. I could only imagine the daily horrors he experienced. That was his way, he was rarely a complainer even in life after the war. He just quietly worked hard and built his family around him.

My other grandfather was an engineer who served ahead of the front lines building bridges in Italy, France, Belgium, and Germany as the Nazis retreated. He was a hard nosed man with a dark sense of humor. He was always sending pictures or artifacts from the war back to my grandmother back home with funny (sometimes off color) captions on them. I suppose humor was a good coping mechanism for him. After the war he sent my grandmother a 50,000 reichmark bill (Which during the third reich would have been an extremely large amount of money), his caption on the bill was "Here, buy some ice cream from the store for me".

When asked, he had plenty of war stories that he used to apply to a particular life lesson. One for instance was a story of when he was with another engineer building a bridge in Italy. They were in an arguement about how much materials to order from supply to build the bridge. My grandfather wanted to be safe and to order a little too much, the other guy was a little stubborn and insisted that they measure the river to get an exact measurement. Since they were ahead of the Canadian lines while the Germans were retreating they didn't always know how close the Germans were. Well needless to say his buddy who swam across to get the perfect measurement was captured by the Germans and most likely lived in a POW camp for the duration of the war. My grandfather never heard from him until well after the war.

In addition to my grandparents I have a few friends from High School who have served or are serving in Afgahnistan. One of them died two years ago while engaging the Taliban and one of my better friends from high school lost both of his legs from an IED. It is the sacrifices of my friends and family across multiple generations that allow millions of others to live free from real oppression and tyranny in Canada. For me, I remember their sacrifices everytime I hear the national anthem play.

[CaptainCrunch]

Some stories from my past just for amusement

During basic training I was given a platoon to run on a patrol. We managed to make our way pretty well until we came to a large clearing. In one of my better judgement moments I selected one of my platoon mates to run across the clearing, I mean if its an ambush site only one of us gets zapped.

So he takes off running as fast as he can, then he vanishes and we hear loud swearing. Then he pops up running again and suddenly vanishes and we hear louder swearing with my name being used heavily. He finally gets across the clearing, and I start sending others across and we finally reach him and the overwhelming smell.

suppossedly the clearing had been used as a base site and there were several latrine holes that hadn't been filled in.


Or on the same excercise we came across an encampment, anyone who's been in Wainwright knows that it can get incredibly foggy. We decided to over run the camp, I sent the same private and two others to the other side of the enacampment at a set time they were to run into the camp firing screaming and making as much noise as possible to distract them while the main group myself included attacked from the other side. So we waited and suddenly we heard a god awful racket made up of war cries and firing from the hip, followed by a extremely loud crashing sound and sobbing. As they ran into attack in this thick fog they failed to see the cammo'd truck in front of them and ran into it at a full sprint knocking them senseless and breaking one nose. the attack fell apart because we laughed so hard.

There was the time we did a winter ex where we did an assault by helicopter. The chopper wouldn't land but it hovered over the snow. Being gung ho I was the first one to leap out wearing my 40 pounds of gear, I hit the snow and promptly sank into a 7 foot snow bank.

then there was the embarressment of doing a parade past a week before graduation followed by a long winded speech by an officer. Halfway through his speech there was a loud thunk as the good Captain overcome by the heat passed out and fell on my face.

When I finally got to instruct ambush tactics to a basic training group and got the coolest job ever which is acting as enemy force. Myself and three other instructors had managed to find imitation Russian great coats and tanker hats which was cool. the senior instructor then pulled out a map and told us where to set up an ambush so that he could march his trainees through there.

We of course ignored those instructions and set up the ambush about 2 km's up the road and killed them all much to the ire of a very pissed off Warrant Officer.

Best time of my life.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

I kind of disagree. Yes, it is mostly about honouring the soldiers, but there is always a certain amount of "look at us, we defeated the big bad Germans- twice!" (things like showing the Longest Day on tv, or articles in the paper exemplifying Churchill). The thing is, I find most of the actions taken by allied soldiers despicable. Whether its American GIs refusing to take prisoners, or bombers killing indiscriminately from 20 000 ft, or sailors dooming 750 000 Germans to starvation, I don't know how these people live with themselves. But really, its been 91 years since the First World War ended, there are only 2 vets left in the whole world, how long will this continue? I give it 20 years.

Um, no. Ireland was neutral because it had recently won its independence from a tyrannical superpower, and wanted nothing more to do with it.

When did John Stewart start posting on CP, let me guess the Japanese were about to surrender even if the US handnt nuked them?

Wow.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Some stories from my past just for amusement

During basic training I was given a platoon to run on a patrol. We managed to make our way pretty well until we came to a large clearing. In one of my better judgement moments I selected one of my platoon mates to run across the clearing, I mean if its an ambush site only one of us gets zapped.

So he takes off running as fast as he can, then he vanishes and we hear loud swearing. Then he pops up running again and suddenly vanishes and we hear louder swearing with my name being used heavily. He finally gets across the clearing, and I start sending others across and we finally reach him and the overwhelming smell.

suppossedly the clearing had been used as a base site and there were several latrine holes that hadn't been filled in.


Or on the same excercise we came across an encampment, anyone who's been in Wainwright knows that it can get incredibly foggy. We decided to over run the camp, I sent the same private and two others to the other side of the enacampment at a set time they were to run into the camp firing screaming and making as much noise as possible to distract them while the main group myself included attacked from the other side. So we waited and suddenly we heard a god awful racket made up of war cries and firing from the hip, followed by a extremely loud crashing sound and sobbing. As they ran into attack in this thick fog they failed to see the cammo'd truck in front of them and ran into it at a full sprint knocking them senseless and breaking one nose. the attack fell apart because we laughed so hard.

There was the time we did a winter ex where we did an assault by helicopter. The chopper wouldn't land but it hovered over the snow. Being gung ho I was the first one to leap out wearing my 40 pounds of gear, I hit the snow and promptly sank into a 7 foot snow bank.

then there was the embarressment of doing a parade past a week before graduation followed by a long winded speech by an officer. Halfway through his speech there was a loud thunk as the good Captain overcome by the heat passed out and fell on my face.

When I finally got to instruct ambush tactics to a basic training group and got the coolest job ever which is acting as enemy force. Myself and three other instructors had managed to find imitation Russian great coats and tanker hats which was cool. the senior instructor then pulled out a map and told us where to set up an ambush so that he could march his trainees through there.

We of course ignored those instructions and set up the ambush about 2 km's up the road and killed them all much to the ire of a very pissed off Warrant Officer.

Best time of my life.

Hey CC, during your time in the armed forces, were you ever given an order you refused to carry out?

I always wonder about that in the army. Obviously it wouldn't function well if soldiers could pick and choose the orders they accepted; however, it is possible to receive an order that would be wrong to carry out. An extreme example is obviously all of the Nazi soldiers that were just carrying out there orders that led to the death of millions of jews in WWII.

Hopefully as a Canadian you never had to deal with something quite so horrible, but did you ever have to say "no" to a superior officer? If you were to say no, what sort of punishment could you expect? Are there failsafes in place so that if you are being ordered to do something wrong (like say burn a village full of civilians a la Vietnam) you could refuse on some sort of grounds that would force your superior to rethink his decision?

***

And in an effort to keep this on topic, anybody ever been to Germany on November 11? I wonder how they approach Remembrance day.

[worth]

I'm pretty sure Germans wouldn't celebrate on November 11 since Remembrance Day is actually Armistice Day. It is the day Germany capitulated to the Allies to end WWI. To remember their armed forces on such a day would be kind of idiotic. I'm pretty sure Nov 11 is just another day in Germany by now. I would think they have chosen another date to remember their soldiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkstrauertag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_day