2009 Wear a Poppy Thread.

[SinceDay1]

Originally Posted by Sliver

At my company we work on Remembrance Day and give a day off between Chrismas and New Year's so people can spend a longer amount of uninterrupted time with their families. It certainly isn't meant to be disprespectful and has nothing do to with the wheels of commerce grinding on. The work-a-day world is hard, and it wears people down. I think an extended break is nice at the end of the year - much nicer than a Wednesday off in the middle of a week.

I agree that it's not meant to be disrespectful, but I think most people are not really thinking about Remembrance Day when they receive that day off over Christmas. They're more likely distracted by Boxing Week sales, etc. Lets face it, there are plenty of "holidays" that have been invented in recent years that could be deferred to the Christmas Break. Specifically, I'm thinking of Family Day and Heritage Day. As far as I can tell, Family Day was created because it's long stretch from New Year's Day and Easter. Despite it's noble intent, most people just spend the day at the mall. Heritage Day is just another day off in the summer.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by SinceDay1

I agree that it's not meant to be disrespectful, but I think most people are not really thinking about Remembrance Day when they receive that day off over Christmas. They're more likely distracted by Boxing Week sales, etc. Lets face it, there are plenty of "holidays" that have been invented in recent years that could be deferred to the Christmas Break. Specifically, I'm thinking of Family Day and Heritage Day. As far as I can tell, Family Day was created because it's long stretch from New Year's Day and Easter. Despite it's noble intent, most people just spend the day at the mall. Heritage Day is just another day off in the summer.

All holidays are like this though. I mean seriously, it's not like any of us are actually celebrating Queen Victoria's birthday on May Long. I'm an atheist and I don't celebrate Jesus's birth on December 25. Easter means ham and chocolate to me. Thanksgiving means turkey. Family day I make a point of doing family things - but I actually treat every stat holiday like family day so in fact it is the only one that is appropriately named IMO.

Right now in my life I'm way too busy to dedicate one full day to thinking about WWI and WWII vets. I will certainly be thinking about them from time to time on the 11th, but that's the extent of it and I think it's presumptuous of them to expect any more than a thank you and some gratitude when I can give it. For example, I spent Father's Day at the Museum of the Regiments with my kids because I believe it's important to pass down that history, but mandating a day for me to do that again on November 11 is unnecessary when that time could be better used doing other things.

[SinceDay1]

Sliver, I hear what you're saying and don't really disagree with a lot of it. I guess the point I was trying to make, is that November 11 is the one holiday that really has some real world relevance to our daily lives but it's also the one holiday that's most easily marginalized and pushed aside.

[kermitology]

My great grandfather was sitting on the veranda of his family home in New York state just after the start of the Great War when a recruiter came up and asked him and his brother if they were interested in signing up for the war. The two looked at each other and shrugged saying: "we've got nothing better to do."

My great grandfather was a British citizen so he had to go to Canada to sign up, in September of 1916 he was in his first month at the front. It was early morning and his turn to take a patrol in no mans land. During that patrol the German's started shelling. My great grandfather was seriously wounded with large pieces of shrapnel in his leg and abdomen. He was seriously disoriented, but knew he had to get back to the trenches if we was going to live.

He picked a direction and started crawling. He picked right. But when he crawled back into the trench a Canadian soldier asked him for the password. He couldn't speak, so he was shot.

My great grandfather spent the rest of the war recovering from his injuries that included the shot to the mouth.

He died at age 95. I got to meet him, but never knew about his time in the Great War. My mother asked him about it so that she knew what he went through. There is no glory in this, there is only sacrifice, horror and honour. It is our duty as future generations to ensure that the sacrifice, horror and honour that these men experienced does not go unforgotten, so that the mistakes that have been made in the past can in some way be avoided in the future.

Personally, the Great War makes me absolutely sick when I get into it. A war waged over NOTHING, with military leadership so cut off from what was going on that millions upon millions were absolutely slaughtered. It's simply sickening.

[octothorp]

Didn't see this discussed anywhere else in the thread, but a big thumbs-up to the display of crosses on the north side of Memorial drive near center street. If you haven't driven by, there are literally hundreds of crosses erected there, honouring Calgarians who died in the course of duty. It's great to see Memorial Drive actually being used as a memorial rather than it just being the name of a road.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...ial-drive.html

However, a minor thumbs down to whoever felt that it was necessary to erect a metal fence (the sort they use around construction sites) between the road and the crosses. It's far enough back there isn't any danger of anyone running off of memorial and into the display, and it would look far classier without the fence.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by kermitology

My great grandfather was sitting on the veranda of his family home in New York state just after the start of the Great War when a recruiter came up and asked him and his brother if they were interested in signing up for the war. The two looked at each other and shrugged saying: "we've got nothing better to do."

My great grandfather was a British citizen so he had to go to Canada to sign up, in September of 1916 he was in his first month at the front. It was early morning and his turn to take a patrol in no mans land. During that patrol the German's started shelling. My great grandfather was seriously wounded with large pieces of shrapnel in his leg and abdomen. He was seriously disoriented, but knew he had to get back to the trenches if we was going to live.

He picked a direction and started crawling. He picked right. But when he crawled back into the trench a Canadian soldier asked him for the password. He couldn't speak, so he was shot.

My great grandfather spent the rest of the war recovering from his injuries that included the shot to the mouth.

He died at age 95. I got to meet him, but never knew about his time in the Great War. My mother asked him about it so that she knew what he went through. There is no glory in this, there is only sacrifice, horror and honour. It is our duty as future generations to ensure that the sacrifice, horror and honour that these men experienced does not go unforgotten, so that the mistakes that have been made in the past can in some way be avoided in the future.

Personally, the Great War makes me absolutely sick when I get into it. A war waged over NOTHING, with military leadership so cut off from what was going on that millions upon millions were absolutely slaughtered. It's simply sickening.

Thanks for the story, Its pretty amazing to think that a great many of this generation have had relatives that have served in various wars for Canada over the last century. Or have many relatives that were affected by wars.

Personally my Grandfather on my fathers side served on bombers in the second world war over Germany.

My uncle on my fathers side served in Korea until he was arrested for battery on an office, was broken from his rank as a warrant officer dodwn to private and returned to Canada in chains. My father got sent to Korea, but they shipped him back when they found out that he was 16.

Members of my mothers family fled Germany during the coming darkness.

I joined when I was 18 because I wanted to accomplish something with my young life that didn't involve french fries and greasy hamburgers. Along the line I met some amazing and incredibly brave people. Two of the kids that I trained are serving to this day including tours of Afghanistan.

I've sat down and talked to some vets of WWII and Korea, including a gentleman at the Military Museum that talked about getting wounded in Korea during an artillary strike on his location and being more upset that his 5 cent comic book got shredded before he had a chance to finish it.

I talked to an old infantry man who slogged his way up through Italy that still hears the scream of German 88's in his sleep.

I sat down with a old Russian Gentleman who was part of Zhukov's army that stormed Berlin and ended up within sight of Hitler's bunker when the war ended. He talked about losing every single member of his Platoon while fighting teenage Hitler Youth fanatics armed only with Bicycles and Panzerfausts (sp?)

If you have a chance over the coming days if you see these older men and woman selling poppies, ask them what their story is. Or buy them a coffee, but make sure you donate.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

One of my biggest pet peeves is how Rememberance Day is not a stat holiday - show some damn respect gov't of Canada or more specifically the financial markets of N.America!!!

Personally after some thought and reflection last year I like how Nova Scotia handles Remembrance Day.

It is the only day of the year retail stores are not permitted to be open. Recent legislation states that stores may set their own hours, and can be open any day of the week (with special conditions placed on Sundays). However due to Remembrance Day having its own legislation, despite the newer legislation stores and businesses are not permitted to be open.

If you want to be open on Chirstmas or Easter feel free. Want to be open on Labour Day be my guest. But you're not allowed to be on November 11. Period. Not after 11:00am, not after 11:11am, not after 11:30am, not after noon, not at all.

Now you'd think that would make it a paid holiday. It is not. If you are a retail employee you are not paid for Remembrance Day. If your employer chooses to pay you that's his/her/the company's choice, but there is no obligation under Nova Scotian law.

Again I like this. Reason being, for the lives and sacrifices given by those who fought for our great nation, the least we can do is not only give them a day of remembrance and respect. We can forego our wages and incentives on this one day as well. A small finanical sacrifice is not too much to ask I don't think. While I doubt that is the intention behind the holiday not being a paid one, I kind of like to think of it in that way.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by octothorp

However, a minor thumbs down to whoever felt that it was necessary to erect a metal fence (the sort they use around construction sites) between the road and the crosses. It's far enough back there isn't any danger of anyone running off of memorial and into the display, and it would look far classier without the fence.

That flimsy fence is not there for cars, it's to prevent ######-bags from kicking over the crosses.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Byrns

That flimsy fence is not there for cars, it's to prevent ######-bags from kicking over the crosses.

What, ######-bags aren't smart enough to figure out that you can walk around the fence? It's on only one side. I've seen lots of people walking along through the crosses.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Right now in my life I'm way too busy to dedicate one full day to thinking about WWI and WWII vets. I will certainly be thinking about them from time to time on the 11th, but that's the extent of it and I think it's presumptuous of them to expect any more than a thank you and some gratitude when I can give it. For example, I spent Father's Day at the Museum of the Regiments with my kids because I believe it's important to pass down that history, but mandating a day for me to do that again on November 11 is unnecessary when that time could be better used doing other things.

I think that's a horrible attitued. A huge number of people, who's time was no less important than yours gave up much more of it to fight for a cause, that you now reap the benefits of.

As to the second highlighted point, I think it's presumptuous that you think any of those vets expecdt you to give them thanks. I'd be willing to bet that most of them are of the attitude that they were simply doing what needed to be done.It isn't up to them to expect a thanks, I'd say it's your obligation to offer it.

It's nice that you do things like take your kids to the museum of the regiments, but I think it is very important to have just one day a year, where we're reminded and given the opportunity to say thanks to those who've made bigger sacrafices than we ever will.

Finally, I'd be interesed to know what you classify as "better things to do", it's not like it takes a whole day to attend a service, go see a parade, or visit the museum.

[4X4]

I'm surprised at how many people are completely clueless about WWI and WWII. The other day on Jeopardy, one of the questions was something like "On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in this year, the treaty was signed to end WWI".

First person responded with 1919, the second person said 1914, and the third person said 1917. Granted, it was the Teen Tournament, but still, who the hell doesn't know that WWI ended in 1918?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I'm surprised at how many people are completely clueless about WWI and WWII. The other day on Jeopardy, one of the questions was something like "On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in this year, the treaty was signed to end WWI".

First person responded with 1919, the second person said 1914, and the third person said 1917. Granted, it was the Teen Tournament, but still, who the hell doesn't know that WWI ended in 1918?

The Germans?

[habernac]

good story, Captain. At my wife's Grandmother's funeral, she received military honours due to her service in the British Army during WW2 (she met and married a Canadian Army Engineer, he fought in both great wars and sadly died in the early 50's). I talked it up with a bunch of the vets there. One gentleman was missing a finger, it was shot off in battle. He said one of the greatest honours of his life was after WW2 when he was chosen to be part of Queen Elizabeth's coronation. Talk to these people as much as you can, there will soon be none left from that era.

My Grandfather was a Flight Lieutenant, piloted a Wellington (he bombed UBoats) during WW2. The kindest man I have ever met, I take a lot of time on Remembrance Day to think about all of the stories he told us when we were kids. He's gone now, died 7 years ago after a long and amazing life. His only regret as he got older is that he never went back to Britain in peace time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by habernac

good story, Captain. At my wife's Grandmother's funeral, she received military honours due to her service in the British Army during WW2 (she met and married a Canadian Army Engineer, he fought in both great wars and sadly died in the early 50's). I talked it up with a bunch of the vets there. One gentleman was missing a finger, it was shot off in battle. He said one of the greatest honours of his life was after WW2 when he was chosen to be part of Queen Elizabeth's coronation. Talk to these people as much as you can, there will soon be none left from that era.

My Grandfather was a Flight Lieutenant, piloted a Wellington (he bombed UBoats) during WW2. The kindest man I have ever met, I take a lot of time on Remembrance Day to think about all of the stories he told us when we were kids. He's gone now, died 7 years ago after a long and amazing life. His only regret as he got older is that he never went back to Britain in peace time.

Your Grandfather was in coastal command then?

Awesome story, there was only one Victoria Cross awarded to Wellington Crews

Victoria Cross Awarded

The only Wellington crew member to receive a Victoria Cross was New Zealander Sergeant J. A. Ward who was a second pilot in the No. 75 Squadron.1 He climbed out onto the wing of his aircraft to put out an engine fire.1

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Your Grandfather was in coastal command then?

Awesome story, there was only one Victoria Cross awarded to Wellington Crews

Victoria Cross Awarded

The only Wellington crew member to receive a Victoria Cross was New Zealander Sergeant J. A. Ward who was a second pilot in the No. 75 Squadron.1 He climbed out onto the wing of his aircraft to put out an engine fire.1

Oh my lord.

[Sainters7]

At the place I work part time, we have a poppy donation bin on the till, and I can't believe there's actually been a few people that have just taken one without donating anything(or they just throw in a nickel or something). I didn't get a poppy until this past weekend and it's because every time I saw one of those bins I didn't have any cash on me, and I refused to just take it from work because I don't wanna be one of those people. That's pretty low class if you ask me.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

At the place I work part time, we have a poppy donation bin on the till, and I can't believe there's actually been a few people that have just taken one without donating anything(or they just throw in a nickel or something). I didn't get a poppy until this past weekend and it's because every time I saw one of those bins I didn't have any cash on me, and I refused to just take it from work because I don't wanna be one of those people. That's pretty low class if you ask me.

Without bragging, I always make sure I have a fairly significant chunk of change to put in the bucket. The vet I bought mine from on Sunday at the Safeway was a very dignified looking old gentleman and most people just walked around or avoided him. I made especially sure to thank him when I took my poppy.

I'll say it again. Those of us under 40 are a spoiled bunch of kids. We can forget the politics of war and remember the derring-do and the courage of the real men and women who fought this country's wars with very little regard for their own personal safety.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Your Grandfather was in coastal command then?

Awesome story, there was only one Victoria Cross awarded to Wellington Crews

Victoria Cross Awarded

The only Wellington crew member to receive a Victoria Cross was New Zealander Sergeant J. A. Ward who was a second pilot in the No. 75 Squadron.1 He climbed out onto the wing of his aircraft to put out an engine fire.1

Unreal.

My aunt has a bunch of stuff recorded, he was telling stories about the war . She's getting it transcribed, I can't wait. I have a great photo of him and both of his crews taken in June, 1944 in Scotland. One of my favourite possesions for certain.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by habernac

Unreal.

My aunt has a bunch of stuff recorded, he was telling stories about the war . She's getting it transcribed, I can't wait. I have a great photo of him and both of his crews taken in June, 1944 in Scotland. One of my favourite possesions for certain.

Seriously, the fact that those stories are being transcribed is awesome, you should contact the war museum, I'm sure that they would be interested in copies for their archieves. too bad you can't post the photos.

I have very few photo's of my relatives, especially the war time ones due to family fall outs.

As it stands I only have a few pictures of myself in uniform because at the time I just wasn't sentimental about that stuff, it would be nice to have those now to pass on to the next generation of Crunch's

[peter12]

I grew up with the entire collection of Robert Service poems. I might still have the book kicking around somewhere. Anyway, here is my favourite.

Bill the Bomber
The poppies gleamed like bloody pools through cotton-woolly mist;
The Captain kept a-lookin' at the watch upon his wrist;
And there we smoked and squatted, as we watched the shrapnel flame;
'Twas wonnerful, I'm tellin' you, how fast them bullets came.
'Twas weary work the waiting, though; I tried to sleep a wink,
For waitin' means a-thinkin', and it doesn't do to think.
So I closed my eyes a little, and I had a niceish dream
Of a-standin' by a dresser with a dish of Devon cream;
But I hadn't time to sample it, for suddenlike I woke:
"Come on, me lads!" the Captain says, 'n I climbed out through the smoke.
We spread out in the open: it was like a bath of lead;
But the boys they cheered and hollered fit to raise the bloody dead,
Till a beastly bullet copped 'em, then they lay without a sound,
And it's odd -- we didn't seem to heed them corpses on the ground.
And I kept on thinkin', thinkin', as the bullets faster flew,
How they picks the werry best men, and they lets the rotters through;
So indiscriminatin' like, they spares a man of sin,
And a rare lad wot's a husband and a father gets done in.
And while havin' these reflections and advancin' on the run,
A bullet biffs me shoulder, and says I: "That's number one."

Well, it downed me for a jiffy, but I didn't lose me calm,
For I knew that I was needed: I'm a bomber, so I am.
I 'ad lost me cap and rifle, but I "carried on" because
I 'ad me bombs and knew that they was needed, so they was.
We didn't 'ave no singin' now, nor many men to cheer;
Maybe the shrapnel drowned 'em, crashin' out so werry near;
And the Maxims got us sideways, and the bullets faster flew,
And I copped one on me flipper, and says I: "That's number two."

I was pleased it was the left one, for I 'ad me bombs, ye see,
And 'twas 'ard if they'd be wasted like, and all along o' me.
And I'd lost me 'at and rifle -- but I told you that before,
So I packed me mit inside me coat and "carried on" once more.
But the rumpus it was wicked, and the men were scarcer yet,
And I felt me ginger goin', but me jaws I kindo set,
And we passed the Boche first trenches, which was 'eapin' 'igh with dead,
And we started for their second, which was fifty feet ahead;
When something like a 'ammer smashed me savage on the knee,
And down I came all muck and blood: Says I: "That's number three."

So there I lay all 'elpless like, and bloody sick at that,
And worryin' like anythink, because I'd lost me 'at;
And thinkin' of me missis, and the partin' words she said:
"If you gets killed, write quick, ol' man, and tell me as you're dead."
And lookin' at me bunch o' bombs -- that was the 'ardest blow,
To think I'd never 'ave the chance to 'url them at the foe.
And there was all our boys in front, a-fightin' there like mad,
And me as could 'ave 'elped 'em wiv the lovely bombs I 'ad.
And so I cussed and cussed, and then I struggled back again,
Into that bit of battered trench, packed solid with its slain.

Now as I lay a-lyin' there and blastin' of me lot,
And wishin' I could just dispose of all them bombs I'd got,
I sees within the doorway of a shy, retirin' dug-out
Six Boches all a-grinnin', and their Captain stuck 'is mug out;
And they 'ad a nice machine gun, and I twigged what they was at;
And they fixed it on a tripod, and I watched 'em like a cat;
And they got it in position, and they seemed so werry glad,
Like they'd got us in a death-trap, which, condemn their souls! they 'ad.
For there our boys was fightin' fifty yards in front, and 'ere
This lousy bunch of Boches they 'ad got us in the rear.

Oh it set me blood a-boilin' and I quite forgot me pain,
So I started crawlin', crawlin' over all them mounds of slain;
And them barstards was so busy-like they 'ad no eyes for me,
And me bleedin' leg was draggin', but me right arm it was free. . . .
And now they 'ave it all in shape, and swingin' sweet and clear;
And now they're all excited like, but -- I am drawin' near;
And now they 'ave it loaded up, and now they're takin' aim. . . .
Rat-tat-tat-tat! Oh here, says I, is where I join the game.
And my right arm it goes swingin', and a bomb it goes a-slingin',
And that "typewriter" goes wingin' in a thunderbolt of flame.

Then these Boches, wot was left of 'em, they tumbled down their 'ole,
And up I climbed a mound of dead, and down on them I stole.
And oh that blessed moment when I heard their frightened yell,
And I laughed down in that dug-out, ere I bombed their souls to hell.
And now I'm in the hospital, surprised that I'm alive;
We started out a thousand men, we came back thirty-five.
And I'm minus of a trotter, but I'm most amazin' gay,
For me bombs they wasn't wasted, though, you might say, "thrown away".