No Sir, you cannot make those Poppy shaped Cookies

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by HOOT

So this idiot actually believes that people buying poppy shaped cookies will distract people from buying actual poppy pins? HA!

I have a poppy in my visor 365 days a year and I always get a few more when I see them around the malls. I will be stopping that from now on. If anything those cookies and pins bring more awareness to their cause.

I'll save my $20+ a year I usually give to them and donate it to a food bank instead.

I would suggest changing your avatar there too - don't want to get the Legion's lawyers after you. These are brave men who fought for the right to copyright what shouldn't be copyrightable, to file junk patents, to bring nuisance court proceedings and file frivolous lawsuits. Don't mess with them.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

The pins that the Legion wouldn't allow to be sold were being used to raise money for veterans. The cookies were baked for and at the request of the family of a veteran. Its not like this is some huge profit driven company trying to keep the money for themselves and trying to deprive veterans...

Even if it was some big profit making scheme, the fact remains that you shouldn't be able to copyright a flower and prevent anyone from using the word poppy or anything that looks remotely like a poppy.

Instead of spending $10,000 making pins why not donate the money directly to the veterans?? The poppy is a symbol of the sacrifices made by Canadians during wars. Its use should be closely controlled so people dont take advantage of the meaning to make money.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Instead of spending $10,000 makes pins why not donate the money directly to the veterans?? The poppy is a symbol of the sacrifices made by Canadians during wars. Its use should be closely controlled so people dont take advantage of the meaning to make money.

Because you can sell $10,000 worth of pins for more than $10,000 and thereby contribute more money. I don't see the confusion.

The issue with copyright and trademark protected images/products is that you are required to be diligent in protecting the item or risk losing the copyright. I don't think this was handled with very much tact, but I'm assuming this is the reason for taking action.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Instead of spending $10,000 making pins why not donate the money directly to the veterans??

Because they estimated that they could use them to raise $50,000 for veterans.

[HOOT]

How has no one put a copyright on a pumpkin? You would make a killing!!!

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

But why does the Legion get exclusive rights to use the poppy as a symbol?

My grandfather served in WWII- and I wear my poppy to honour him and the sacrifices he made. (also to honour our other troups; past and current.) He also detested the Legion- he had stopped going by the early 50's because "it was full of guys who never saw action in the war, but go on to tell stories about how hard the war was."

The poppy symbolizes the efforts of our soldiers; and this is how it is being used in this story. Just because the Legion found a way to use this symbol as a fund raiser doesn't mean they own it.

I have to make this quick, i'm at work after all.
I don't know why they have exclusive rights but I'm glad they do, as I stated before, the symbol of the poppy is being diminished every year, I think it would disappear completely if it were available for use to anyone.
Sure, one or two people doing it doesn't amount to much but if the legion didn't stop it, use would only get more prevalent.
I’m sorry your grandfather had some bad experiences with some locals in the legion but the legion is much more than guys sitting around telling stories about the war. I’m sure in the end, as much as he hated the Legion, he would not want the memory of his efforts and of those many who gave their lives forgotten or trivialized, the poppy helps us to remember.
Anyone who chooses to use this as a reason not to buy a poppy... it would appear the meaning has already lost on you.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Anyone who chooses to use this as a reason not to buy a poppy... it would appear the meaning has already lost on you.

Perhaps it has. I was under the impression that the meaning of the poppy was to remember the sacrifices of our armed forces and to help support them. The Legion has shown me that I was wrong and its all about controlling copyright.

Sure, one or two people doing it doesn't amount to much but if the legion didn't stop it, use would only get more prevalent.

IANAL, but what it seems like they could do is have a look at what these two people are doing, realize that their actions align with what they state their interests are and explicitly allow them to use the poppy for that purpose. Effectively, it keeps them in control of their copyright so they don't lose it by not acting and still furthers their cause. In my mind, this would be preferable and give all parties exactly what they want... even though I still disagree with the general idea of copyrighting a plant that's been around for far longer than its been used as a symbol for Remembrance Day.

[Methanolic]

From what I've read, The old boys at the Legion are asking for a small donation and a simple jesture to show your respect.....wear the Poppy. This is all they ask in return for many of them sacrificing life and limb.

I defend the Legion's stance regarding this issue. It seems every year, there is somebody thinking they are doing the right thing, and every year the Legion has to let them know that this is not the way to show your respect.

If the Legion didn't nip this kind of stuff in the bud, who knows what we'd be seeing this time of year. Poppy car flags?, Poppy Hats, touques, scarfs,....Poppies on commemorative cases of Molson Canadian?, Poppy "ribbon" stickers?, Poppy halloween candy? Remembrance Day sales at the Brick? and yeah!~ Poppy shaped Cookies. The show of respect is intended to be simple and uniform, not like a holiday or a celebration.

Almost 95 years ago, Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae put pen to paper and wrote what might be the most memorable war poem, and because of his words, the Poppy has become a strong, yet simple, symbol of remembrance. Respect it or don't! But leave it alone and don't think it's yours to do with what you please.


BTW: some simple Poppy etiquette;

-Buy (donate) a new one each year.
-Wear it from Nov. 1st to 11th.
-Wear it on your left side (closest to your heart)


Poppy Don'ts:

-Wear it on your hat
-Wear more than one.
-Wear it before 11/01 or after 11/11.
-Use a "flag pin to secure it.
-Pin it to your vehicles visor.
-Wear it on your leg (I've seen it).


Pretty simple. The boys that fought made up these simple rules, not me.


Also, If you are one of the "never buying a Poppy again" crowd...


...........take a few seconds and read this:



In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army


In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

Poppy Don'ts:

-Wear it on your hat
-Wear more than one.
-Wear it before 11/01 or after 11/11.
-Use a "flag pin to secure it.
-Pin it to your vehicles visor.
-Wear it on your leg (I've seen it).

Thanks tips but I will put it where ever I want. I don't personally believe 11 days is enough to show your support so I have one up all year round.

You ruined a really good post with that garbage.

[mykalberta]

I would have to see the pic of the cookied before I comment. If its a blatant copy of the poppy the Legion gives out, then they have a point. Part of copywrite is defending the copywrite, if they knowingly allow this, then their patent is basically garbage.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Part of copywrite is defending the copywrite, if they knowingly allow this, then their patent is basically garbage.

Wouldn't that only be the case if they simply ignored its usage? If they agree with the purposes its being used for, couldn't they license them to use the copyrighted image and it would not effect their ability to enforce it in the future?

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Thanks tips but I will put it where ever I want. I don't personally believe 11 days is enough to show your support so I have one up all year round.

You ruined a really good post with that garbage.

This is the way the men and women who fought want it to be.

Like I said, they are very simple rules, They are not my rules, following them is showing respect.

So you have just told me that you think their rules are "Garbage".

Very nice.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

This is the way the men and women who fought want it to be.

Like I said, they are very simple rules, They are not my rules, following them is showing respect.

So you have just told me that you think their rules are "Garbage".

Very nice.

Some of us don't agree with their rules so some will show their respect in other ways and some will choose they don't need to outwardly show their respect in the form of a flower pinned to their shirt.

Don't agree with that? Stop being so anal about the rules then.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

This is the way the men and women who fought want it to be.

Like I said, they are very simple rules, They are not my rules, following them is showing respect.

So you have just told me that you think their rules are "Garbage".

Very nice.

Yep they are garbage. I am going to ask these people what they think about me keeping it up 365 days a year as a reminder, instead of just wearing it 11 days a year.

Personally I think you are a full of **** in those rules and most if not all would appreciate that I see the poppy and think about them daily instead of a week and a half. These are just things that you think should be and not be.

[mykalberta]

Personally I think its in extremely bad case for a charity to be trying to profit off the rememberence day celebrations. If the money isnt being donated or used for rememberence day celebrations then shame on whatever charity tried that.

After reading the story its hard to believe they went after them. The bakery isnt selling these openly, its a request. Its like getting a big bird cake for your kid, does joe bakery pay big bird royalties for that - that is BS.

It will be interesting to see what Calgary Coop is selling in next week flyer. They often advertise cookies/cupcakes with designs on them.

[Byrns]

Why did the cookies need to be poppy shaped? Couldn't they have used a ribbon instead? I think they did nothing wrong by protecting the copyright. Sorry to the self-righteous.

[The Ditch]

If I donate some money for a poppy I'll do whatever the hell I want with it, I'll put it on my hat if I want. Also, laughing at the comments, I want to copy write snow, charge every place that has it without my permission.

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Yep they are garbage. I am going to ask these people what they think about me keeping it up 365 days a year as a reminder, instead of just wearing it 11 days a year.

Good!

Please follow up with your claim and let me know what they say!!

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Some of us don't agree with their rules so some will show their respect in other ways and some will choose they don't need to outwardly show their respect in the form of a flower pinned to their shirt.

Don't agree with that? Stop being so anal about the rules then.

They earned the right to make what ever rules they want. written or otherwise, it's up to them, Not You.

It's all about respect my good sir. You choose not to respect their wishes?

...I think that shows ignorance.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

They earned the right to make what ever rules they want. written or otherwise, it's up to them, Not You.

It's all about respect my good sir. You choose not to respect their wishes?

...I think that shows ignorance.

I don't like their rules so, as of this year, I don't wear a poppy at all.



edit: to clarify: I respect veterans and what they've done. I don't respect the Legion's stance on the use of poppy copyrights.