Gorbachev: Moscow could have started WW3 over the Berlin Wall

[Bertuzzied]

Wow. that would have been insane back in 1989.

The Kremlin could have started World War Three in 1989 had it used troops to crush the demonstrations that preceded the fall of the Berlin Wall, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev said on Tuesday.Gorbachev is hailed in the West for ignoring hardliners who advised him to guarantee the Soviet Union's future by crushing a growing wave of dissent in Eastern Bloc countries which led to the fall of the Berlin Wall on Nov. 9, 1989.



"If the Soviet Union had wished, there would have been nothing of the sort (the fall of the Wall) and no German unification. But what would have happened? A catastrophe or World War Three," said Gorbachev, 78.
"My policy was open and sincere, a policy aimed at using democracy and not spilling blood. But this cost me very dear, I can tell you that," he said.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Mo...227/story.html

[starseed]

It is very hard to imagine the world I would have grown up in had Gorbachev not been the leader of the U.S.S.R.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by starseed

It is very hard to imagine the world I would have grown up in had Gorbachev not been the leader of the U.S.S.R.

But, but, I thought Ronald Reagan saved the world?

[FlamesAddiction]

Gorbachev did do a lot for peace and ending the cold war. I always resented how Reagan was portrayed as some brave poltical warrior and Gorbachev as a cowering ass-kisser.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by troutman

But, but, I though Ronald Regan saved the world?

REAGAN SMASH!

[starseed]

"The West and above all the United States thought that they had a full monopoly in their hands . . . Their triumphalist complex cost a fair amount: a lot could have been resolved and wars avoided in Europe," he said.

I somewhat agree with what he is saying, but how could that have stopped the wars in the Balkans?

It is also kinda disturbing to see that the majority of Russians consider it a tragedy that the uprising was not quelled.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by starseed

It is also kinda disturbing to see that the majority of Russians consider it a tragedy that the uprising was not quelled.

Disturbing maybe, surprising, not really. These are citizens that have been forced to live under one tyrant or another for centuries. They are so used to being oppressed, they now almost need to be lead with a strong fist. That's right, Russians need to be fisted to be happy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by starseed

I somewhat agree with what he is saying, but how could that have stopped the wars in the Balkans?

It is also kinda disturbing to see that the majority of Russians consider it a tragedy that the uprising was not quelled.

I think he might be referring to how after Slovenia and Croatia declared independence, Bosnia was pushed by western countries to do the same. They were given re-assurance that the west would keep the peace there. Many Bosnian leaders were apprehensive because they feared a massive civil war. When they did declare independence, no one knew how to deal with it. I think had they not declared independence though, they would have been partitioned by now and perhaps an even greater Serb-Croat conflict would have arisen with Bosnian muslims caught in the middle.

Although, it's important to remember that Yugoslavia was not aligned with the Soviets (there are no statues of Stalin or Lenin anywhere), so it's a little vague how it relates to the Wall coming down.

I just remember how Gorbachev was reforming the Soviet Union and allowing more freedom. The wheels were already in motion for the Wall to come down, and then Reagan had to do his big "tear down this wall!" speech... like he was the one who making everything happen.

[drewboy12]

"In Soviet Russia, TV watches you"

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by starseed

It is also kinda disturbing to see that the majority of Russians consider it a tragedy that the uprising was not quelled.

I remember reading a magazine article (I think it was TIME) that said that something like 60% of Russians would go back to communism if given the choice. When the Soviet Union broke up, the economy crashed and living conditions drastically worsened for the majority of the working class. Even those who had the money to buy food were faced with serious supply shortages, and crime and corruption were (and according to some still are) rampant. Democracy really didn't look all that great for the first few years in Russia.

[mykalberta]

I wouldnt exactly call what Russia has now a democracy when Putin is able to change the rules to keep him as the defacto leader.

[PIMking]

This is the reason why we moved to the states. My father was in the us army and mum was a german and we moved in oct of 89. I asked my dad when I was younger on why we moved and he told me they thought the russians were going to invade western germany. so when he was discharched we packed up and moved. I was only 4 1/2 years old at the time. I still remember watching the wall fall on tv here in the states.

[SebC]

could have but it would have caused WWIII = couldn't have

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Disturbing maybe, surprising, not really. These are citizens that have been forced to live under one tyrant or another for centuries. They are so used to being oppressed, they now almost need to be lead with a strong fist. That's right, Russians need to be fisted to be happy.

My wife is Russian, so I'm getting a fist out of these replies...

[CaptainCrunch]

theory on the start of WWIII in the Fulda Gap in Germany

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rba...tle/fulda.html

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by SebC

could have but it would have caused WWIII = couldn't have

You can say that now perhaps, but for about 40 years, it was a very real possibility.