Who's getting the H1N1 shot?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

No. People volunteer for it. It's the way clinical trials are done for all kinds of vaccines and medicines... and they are currently doing them for the H1N1 vaccine. Results won't be ready until sometime in 2010 though.

Typically, high risk diseases aren't tested exclusively this way, volunteer or not.

Also, are you saying that all influenza vaccines are tested (exclusively) this way?

What is it about this particular flu vaccine that raises your cockles?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Dion

Found something on the testing of the vaccine....





http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/con...accine-jw.html

Thanks, but do you have one for the Canadian vaccine (ie. the adjuvanted vaccine)? That is what I am talking about.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Shazam

What is it about this particular flu vaccine that raises your cockles?

Lack of transparency is my issue.

For what reason given the now stated obvious benefits being touted by PHAC (boosted immune system and suggested increased protection against any variations of the virus) and the "claimed" safety data from Europe over years past hasn't it been approved by them before?

Surely it could have lowered costs and saved lives in seasons past?

What was their concern with it previously and how has this been addressed?

Is it that the adjuvant allows for muliple production in a high demand year when compared to the un-adjuvanted form that has allowed it to be rushed through?

Why has the US failed to approve it given that they have declared a national emergency and are experiencing a shortage?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Typically, high risk diseases aren't tested exclusively this way, volunteer or not.

Also, are you saying that all influenza vaccines are tested (exclusively) this way?

What is it about this particular flu vaccine that raises your cockles?

Actually, they do test the flu vaccines like that. Not just this one, but all.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00952276

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00630331

http://www.clinicaltrial.gov/ct2/show/NCT00192348

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsr...N1Adjuvant.htm

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0908535

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Actually, they do test the flu vaccines like that. Not just this one, but all.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00952276

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00630331

http://www.clinicaltrial.gov/ct2/show/NCT00192348

http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsr...N1Adjuvant.htm

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0908535

You gave me one link that doesn't have to do with the H1N1 virus, and it was for nasal delivery.

Also, the yearly flu vaccines are given out anyways.

This stuff wasn't invented yesterday.

Again, you still haven't provided a reason why you're so concerned.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Lack of transparency is my issue.

For what reason given the now stated obvious benefits being touted by PHAC (boosted immune system and suggested increased protection against any variations of the virus) and the "claimed" safety data from Europe over years past hasn't it been approved by them before?

Surely it could have lowered costs and saved lives in seasons past?

What was their concern with it previously and how has this been addressed?

My understanding is that having the adjuvant means that less of the vaccine is required. So that means more doses available.

Is it that the adjuvant allows for muliple production in a high demand year when compared to the un-adjuvanted form that has allowed it to be rushed through?

I dunno, is it?

Why has the US failed to approve it given that they have declared a national emergency and are experiencing a shortage?

Because they don't usually have adjuvanted vaccines? What other reasons are you thinking?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Shazam

You gave me one link that doesn't have to do with the H1N1 virus, and it was for nasal delivery.

Also, the yearly flu vaccines are given out anyways.

This stuff wasn't invented yesterday.

Again, you still haven't provided a reason why you're so concerned.

I gave you links to show that all flu viruses go through clinical studies like the one I mentioned... that is why I gave examples outside of H1N1.

Typically that is what happens with all vaccines before they are released to the public. The adjuvanted vaccine in Canada has not gone through that yet, so we don't know to what degee it is aeffective. It's not that I am concerned, I am just stating that we don't know how effective it is and could therefore give a false sense of security to people who take it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Shazam

My understanding is that having the adjuvant means that less of the vaccine is required. So that means more doses available.

So basically ... the only reason it's finally been approved is because of a high demand year?

One would think given how they're touting how much more effective it is and its propensity for increased protection it would have made more sense in less predictable seasonal flu years.

All I'd like to know is why wasn't it approved in the past given their claim ... now ... that it's been used for years in flu vaccines in Europe for high risk patients?

Originally Posted by Shazam

I dunno, is it?

Only reason I can think off.

Originally Posted by Shazam

Because they don't usually have adjuvanted vaccines? What other reasons are you thinking?

But prior to this event, neither did Canada due to non-approval.

Concerns re. lack of clinical testing data I'm guessing. I was under the impression that the state of emergency allows these things to be fast-tracked.

[metallicat]

I just want to offer a collective thanks to many of you in this thread who have, and continue to provide information for those of us who either don't know any better, or are too lazy to look up the stuff themselves. So thanks, it truly is appreciated.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Thanks, but do you have one for the Canadian vaccine (ie. the adjuvanted vaccine)? That is what I am talking about.

Health Canada authorized the H1N1 vaccine that includes an adjuvant, or booster, based on a German trial involving 130 adults. The regulator also reviewed several other trials that studied various components of the vaccine, including the adjuvant.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/...ine-us-uk.html

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Dion

Health Canada authorized the H1N1 vaccine that includes an adjuvant, or booster, based on a German trial involving 130 adults. The regulator also reviewed several other trials that studied various components of the vaccine, including the adjuvant.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/...ine-us-uk.html

Yeah, in fact I posted that same link earlier in the thread to show how limited the testing has been. That trial did not include a placebo group to determine actual effectiveness.

[photon]

They don't usually do a placebo trial for seasonal flu vaccines because they are well understood and have a long history to gather data from. This H1N1 vaccine is the same as a seasonal flu vaccine with the exception of the adjuvant, which has also been very well studied.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by photon

They don't usually do a placebo trial for seasonal flu vaccines because they are well understood and have a long history to gather data from. This H1N1 vaccine is the same as a seasonal flu vaccine with the exception of the adjuvant, which has also been very well studied.

If you look at the links I posted on the previous page, you can see that they do use placebo groups for studying flu vaccines.

[photon]

For studying, but they don't do a full blown trial like that every year before rolling them out, as far as I know.

[Ashartus]

Most of the data on whether they work is based on measuring antibody responses in people with the vaccine and comparing data to previous years - the trials are more related to the safety of the vaccine, since short of deliberately exposing people to the flu you'd need to conduct the trial on a huge number of people over a full flu season (by which time it's too late to start vaccinating).

[Peanut]

Hey All,
Thanks for the kind words and thoughts for our daughter. For those who are wondering, we just got home from the hospital a short while ago with our daughter. Her fever broke last night and her tests all came up negative for basically every possibility of infection except viral. It will take a few more days for the results to come back officially, but they sent us home with Tamiflu and the understanding that she has/had some sort of flu, perhaps H1N1.

The precautions they are taking are pretty intense. She was in "isolation" which meant no-one could enter her room or handle her without gloves, gown, mask, and goggles. There were numerous other kids on her unit in the hospital in isolation as well. ER was nutty, we waited for 9 hours to get admitted to a room in the hospital.

One nurse told us that staff levels are already reduced by 30% due to illness. It's one thing to read all the "media-hype", but seeing it firsthand... honestly, it doesn't really feel like hype.

[metallicat]

Glad to hear good news Peanut.

One thing I don't get. Why aren't all doctors, nurses, and hospital staff in general FORCED to get immunized? I have a co-worker whose girlfriend is a nurse administering the vaccine, but she has not been vaccinated. I don't get that at all. You say staff levels are down 30% due to this thing. Get them all vaccinated!

[tete]

I'm so happy that you're home with your daughter, Peanut. I was thinking about you guys all day.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Glad to hear good news Peanut.

One thing I don't get. Why aren't all doctors, nurses, and hospital staff in general FORCED to get immunized? I have a co-worker whose girlfriend is a nurse administering the vaccine, but she has not been vaccinated. I don't get that at all. You say staff levels are down 30% due to this thing. Get them all vaccinated!

I would assume that most health workers get immunized. However, with the arrival of the vaccine last week, most wouldn't be immune yet.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Hey All,
Thanks for the kind words and thoughts for our daughter. For those who are wondering, we just got home from the hospital a short while ago with our daughter. Her fever broke last night and her tests all came up negative for basically every possibility of infection except viral. It will take a few more days for the results to come back officially, but they sent us home with Tamiflu and the understanding that she has/had some sort of flu, perhaps H1N1.

The precautions they are taking are pretty intense. She was in "isolation" which meant no-one could enter her room or handle her without gloves, gown, mask, and goggles. There were numerous other kids on her unit in the hospital in isolation as well. ER was nutty, we waited for 9 hours to get admitted to a room in the hospital.

One nurse told us that staff levels are already reduced by 30% due to illness. It's one thing to read all the "media-hype", but seeing it firsthand... honestly, it doesn't really feel like hype.

Glad to hear that things are looking up. I think your experience shows how the vaccination effort isn't so much about patient mortality but about morbidity and subsequent stress on the health care system. Unfortunately, with how badly this provincial government has mismanaged the system, it will only get worse.