Why our care system doesnt work for everything - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

johnnyrocket03 · 11-02-2009, 01:11 PM

While I am more than satisfied with how it operates regarding diagnosis and surgical procedures and everything i am disgusted with our hospitals and doctors here in Calgary.

My Uncle is severely depressed and has attempted on 3 occasions now to end his life. after being in the hospital for 1 day the first time and 1 night the second he was released to go back into the world on his own. now after the 3rd time if it wasnt for someone catching him in the act he wouldnt be here and the police have told us that we need at least one doctor to sign off on him being committed for 30 days, no doctor that we have spoken to will do this.

im not looking for help or sympathy, i simply wanted a place to release my anger and disgust at how the system seems to be working against someone who so desperately needs its help.

If this is in any way inapprpriate for this forum or the mods see it unneccessary please delete the thread. Dont turn this into a joke please.

Rerun · 11-02-2009, 01:14 PM

I take it your uncle is unwilling to sign himself into the hospital? I do believe you can do that....

What about getting your uncle to see a family physician who then can give your uncle a referral to see a psychiatrist?

Jayems · 11-02-2009, 01:15 PM

Explain further about the docs not willing to sign the papers. Is it his GP? A doc at the hospital?

The police can take him to the hospital against his will (Form 10) if they believe he is suicidal and he can be held there under the mental health act for further examination, which requires a member of the ER's crisis team to evaluate him along with psychiatric doctors. The docs can sign another document (Form 1, usually done upon being seen by the first ER doctor) that requires up to 24hrs of evaluation (or until a doctor cancels the certificate). Furthermore, a 30 day certificate can be issued if it is necessary. However, people can be admitted to a psychiatric ward at a hospital without being certified under the mental health act. Is this what you mean by being in the hospital? Was this treatment provided?

Also, if your uncle is telling the doctors and nurses that he is fine, will take his meds, won't try to hurt himself, and they have no reason to otherwise believe he won't, what options do they have?

Dion · 11-02-2009, 01:25 PM

From the Alberta Mental Health Act.....

II. Who Does the Act Apply To?

To be admitted and detained in a hospital involuntarily, you must meet all three of the following conditions, which are explained in more detail below:

1. Mental Disorder

You must have a mental disorder or you must be apparently suffering from a mental disorder.

2. A Danger to Self or Others

You must be in a condition that presents a danger to yourself or to others, or are likely to do so.

3. No Alternative

You must be unsuitable for admission in any other way. This is generally understood to mean that you refuse to be admitted voluntarily.

IV. How Long Can I Be Kept?

The first admission certificate expires within 24 hours from the time of arrival at the hospital, unless a second admission certificate is completed within that time. Two admission certificates allow the hospital to keep you for up to one month from the date of the second certificate.

http://download.cmha.ab.ca/alberta/mha.pdf

johnnyrocket03 · 11-02-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayems

Explain further about the docs not willing to sign the papers. Is it his GP? A doc at the hospital?

The police can take him to the hospital against his will (Form 10) if they believe he is suicidal and he can be held there under the mental health act for further examination, which requires a member of the ER's crisis team to evaluate him along with psychiatric doctors. The docs can sign another document (Form 1) that requires up to 24hrs of evaluation (or until a doctor cancels the certificate). Furthermore, a 30 day certificate can be issued if it is necessary. However, people can be admitted to a psychiatric ward at a hospital without being certified under the mental health act. Is this what you mean by being in the hospital? Was this treatment provided?

He was kept and evaluated the first time and because he is such a good "salesman" he was let go and not seen as a further risk. The second time he was let out after one night and then last night the police wouldnt come and pick him up without a dctors signature.

He is unwilling to go on his own as he is determined to see this through.

Dion · 11-02-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyrocket03

He was kept and evaluated the first time and because he is such a good "salesman" he was let go and not seen as a further risk. The second time he was let out after one night and then last night the police wouldnt come and pick him up without a dctors signature.

He is unwilling to go on his own as he is determined to see this through.

That's your biggest problem there - he doesn't want ot go. It sounds to me he's telling the doctors all the right things so he can get released. You can't fault the mental health system for that.

johnnyrocket03 · 11-02-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

That's your biggest problem there - he doesn't want ot go. It sounds to me he's telling the doctors all the right things so he can get released. You can't fault the mental health system for that.

you would think after multiple attempts that they would start to take it seriously though. If you have on record the same guy has been in for the same thing multiple times over the course of a month, you would think thye would determine that he is just a good liar...and why does family opinion mean nothing?

Cactus Jack · 11-02-2009, 01:33 PM

WHAT? Preposterous. I thought our Canadian, socialist, single-payer-system government death panels were supposed to make these kinds of decisions for us.

Dion · 11-02-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyrocket03

you would think after multiple attempts that they would start to take it seriously though. If you have on record the same guy has been in for the same thing multiple times over the course of a month, you would think thye would determine that he is just a good liar...and why does family opinion mean nothing?

My understanding is your uncle was given a 24 hour admission certificate based on his initial visit. The next day or morning the GP does another examination to determine if a second admission certificate is needed and a trip to a mental health ward. If the patient says they feel better they have to let him or her go. A families word isn't good enough and you will need a note or something from his GP or a psychiatrist that will verify his mental state of mine.

jar_e · 11-02-2009, 01:50 PM

I believe you can apply for a mental health warrant through a judge as well. I'm not sure what the time frame is, but I believe you can get the assessment to be a certain amount of days and its definitely more than a form 10.

To be honest, form 10's are kind of a joke for police and for the hospitals. Though they definitely may get the person help if they want it, as you've experienced it can easily be talked out of and, IMO, the doctors just don't seem to take these allegations seriously. Unfortunately, I've heard of many stories where someone talks to a doc after being form 10'd, is released immediately, and than commits suicide in the next hour.

Dion · 11-02-2009, 01:57 PM

You need to get him to see a psychiatrist so his mental health conditon can be documented. A medical history is your best bet to get him admitted for treatment. Documentation will help get him admitted.

To be fair lot's of people end up in emerg saying they want to commit suicide. Unless they show physical or emotional signs you can't be committed. If your uncle says he wants to fight his illness that tells me he hasn't given up on life yet. His attempts appear to be a cry for help. Please get him that help!

A families word is no good as they are not qualified to make a medical opinion.

T@T · 11-02-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dion

You need to get him to see a psychiatrist so his mental health conditon can be documented. A medical history is your best bet to get him admitted for treatment. Documentation will help get him admitted.

To be fair lot's of people end up in emerg saying they want to commit suicide. Unless they show physical or emotional signs you can't be committed. If your uncle says he wants to fight his illness that tells me he hasn't given up on life yet. His attempts appear to be a cry for help. Please get him that help!

A families word is no good as they are not qualified to make a medical opinion.

Exactly, If he really wanted to die he would be after 3 attempts, he needs professional help and maybe more important help from family.