2009 Wear a Poppy Thread.

[peter12]

Soldiers are the courageous arm of our politics. To the men who stormed the beaches of Normandy and fought through the mud at Passchendale, I say thank God for such bad ass motherf****rs.

[temple5]

When is it proper to wear it. I gave my 5$ for one today, but not sure when its proper to wear it, day of, 1 day in advance, 13 days in advance seems excessive - like malls playing Christmas music in September.

[metallicat]

I see no reason why you shouldn't wear it right now. If they're handing them out, wear it. I didn't see anyone selling them today, or I would've been wearing one.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Magnum, to criticize the average soldier for political decisions which are completely out of their control such as the way in which civilians were treated in South Africa is in poor character in my opinion. It is not the soldier who will draft legislation or form policy decisions. The soldier is there to follow orders, some they may not agree with, but ones in which they have to respect none-the-less... and I know more than a few men who have some pretty painful dreams about what they have seen and what they have done.

The only time I ever heard my grandfather swear was when I was interviewing him for a Remembrance Day project when I asked him about Churchill. He hated that Churchill, FDR, Eisenhower, et al got credit for winning the war when they were nowhere near the trenches, front lines that the infantry soldiers were. They didn't see, live, have to commit the horrors that they did.

I think back to the stories my father told me about my grandfather, the very few times I talked to him about the war, and I can't imagine what he went through.

My grandfather never flaunted that he was a veteran, never bragged about the medals he won. To be honest with you I have no idea which medals he was. He believed that they were nothing to be proud of and show off, you shouldn't celebrate war, it was a necessary evil.

I wear a poppy proudly every year. Being in the military is something I certainly couldn't handle, but have the utmost respect for anyone who can and does serve our nation.

Whether you agree with our nation's military decisions or not, blaming the soldiers is just foolish. That's like blaming the gas station attendant for the price of fuel. If a solider is willing to give his or her life to protect me, I'm more than willing to wear a pin on my lapel for them. Is that really so much to ask?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by temple5

When is it proper to wear it. I gave my 5$ for one today, but not sure when its proper to wear it, day of, 1 day in advance, 13 days in advance seems excessive - like malls playing Christmas music in September.

While it is acceptable to wear year around, I would say it's socially the norm to wear it from November 1, until November 11, at 11:11.

[flip]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

Memorial at Dieppe France for my Dad's regiment.

Curious if you are aware of the Dieppe "conspiracy theories". Basically the Canadians were sent to die to appease Stalin about the lack of a second front. There is more to it than that but considering Dieppe is probably the biggest blunder in Canadian military history it is worth discussing IMO.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

The only time I ever heard my grandfather swear was when I was interviewing him for a Remembrance Day project when I asked him about Churchill. He hated that Churchill, FDR, Eisenhower, et al got credit for winning the war when they were nowhere near the trenches, front lines that the infantry soldiers were. They didn't see, live, have to commit the horrors that they did.

No disrespect to your granddaddy, but without Churchill, FDR, Eisenhower, et al. there was no hope in hell that the Allies make it out of that war. Churchill alone had enough balls to stare destiny in the face and take his chances at a time when it looked like Britain had no chance against the German war machine.

As I said before, paraphrasing Clausewitz, soldiers are the courageous element of our politics.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by peter12

No disrespect to your granddaddy, but without Churchill, FDR, Eisenhower, et al. there was no hope in hell that the Allies make it out of that war. Churchill alone had enough balls to stare destiny in the face and take his chances at a time when it looked like Britain had no chance against the German war machine.

As I said before, paraphrasing Clausewitz, soldiers are the courageous element of our politics.

I don't think he ever doubted that. I don't mean to say that the war would have been won without them, again I don't think he meant that either.

They weren't at the front lines, they ordered people battle, essentially ordered them to their deaths.

I think the best way to explain what I think he meant was, did you see the movie Ike? When Selleck as Eisenhower makes the command to storm Normandy his character says (to paraphrase) "A minute ago I was the most powerful man in the world, as soon as I made that decision there was nothing left for me to do." My immediate thought was "you go and fight with your soldiers." Looking at it from the point of view of someone who saw every single person in his crew die in a battle, I can see why my grandfather didn't have much love for the beforementioned people.

Is having a braintrust well behind enemy lines making the touch decisions a necessary evil in the nature of how battle works? Yes, it is. But I can see why a front line soldier would resent the unconditioned praise for the people calling the shots from well behind the front line.

[Superflyer]

I remember when I was in HS, I was also in the Army Cadets. Every year we would help with the poppies and I always felt so proud to do it. To know that I was helping to raise money for the people that risked their lives to make mine better and to help distribute the poppies made me feel so good. We did not sell the poppies, we could even give them away, they just wanted to have them out there to raise awareness and show that the people that gave their lives were not forgotten.

Also this is the first thread that I have ever awarded a rating to.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I don't think he ever doubted that. I don't mean to say that the war would have been won without them, again I don't think he meant that either.

They weren't at the front lines, they ordered people battle, essentially ordered them to their deaths.

I think the best way to explain what I think he meant was, did you see the movie Ike? When Selleck as Eisenhower makes the command to storm Normandy his character says (to paraphrase) "A minute ago I was the most powerful man in the world, as soon as I made that decision there was nothing left for me to do." My immediate thought was "you go and fight with your soldiers." Looking at it from the point of view of someone who saw every single person in his crew die in a battle, I can see why my grandfather didn't have much love for the beforementioned people.

Is having a braintrust well behind enemy lines making the touch decisions a necessary evil in the nature of how battle works? Yes, it is. But I can see why a front line soldier would resent the unconditioned praise for the people calling the shots from well behind the front line.

Hey, I agree. I always feel like much less of a man when I am around soldiers. If courage and camraderie are the male virtues, then the men and women in the armed forces are the final remnants of that in our societies. The ones who go into combat, those who live and those who fall, are Spartans. Every one of them.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by flip

Curious if you are aware of the Dieppe "conspiracy theories". Basically the Canadians were sent to die to appease Stalin about the lack of a second front. There is more to it than that but considering Dieppe is probably the biggest blunder in Canadian military history it is worth discussing IMO.

I think that this is likely one of the major reasons for the Dieppe raid (and it was a raid - not an invasion). The Soviets made some massive sacrifices in World War II that should not be ignored and I can completely understand their urging the other allies for more action, it is just unfortunate that action involved the disastrous raid. The raid was tragically flawed from it's beginnings, whether it be the choice in location or the tanks inability to move on the beaches due to the loose rocks breaking the tracks, the poor fire support or the underestimating of the German forces. In general I can't help but think that the entire thing was doomed from the start and Canadian forces paid a massive price.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I think that this is likely one of the major reasons for the Dieppe raid (and it was a raid - not an invasion). The Soviets made some massive sacrifices in World War II that should not be ignored and I can completely understand their urging the other allies for more action, it is just unfortunate that action involved the disastrous raid. The raid was tragically flawed from it's beginnings, whether it be the choice in location or the tanks inability to move on the beaches due to the loose rocks breaking the tracks, the poor fire support or the underestimating of the German forces. In general I can't help but think that the entire thing was doomed from the start and Canadian forces paid a massive price.

Umm thanks?


Yeah, I didn't ask for a history lesson but OK, I'm sure some of the other posters aren't familiar with WWII history. I guess you couldn't resist showing your knowledge on the subject even if it had nothing to do with my post or the question I asked.

I asked someone whose family was involved in Dieppe if they have any feelings on the fact that thousands of Canadian troops were basically sacrificed for purely political reasons with almost no strategic or tactical advantages.

Just curious if there is any bitterness there because of the surrounding factors involved at Dieppe.

[kipperiggy]

I remember growing up in elementary school, they always told us poppies cost a quarter, and everybody got one readily. I thought that for years, until I realized how foolish it is to only give a quarter. I've been giving more since (I dunno, something different each year) and I gave $5 this year, and I'll probably make this the norm, since when I put the bill in the woman thanked me more than I've ever been thanked, again making me realize how important it is to give and to remember.

[Suzles]

I also wear a purple poppy (with my red one) that I can only get from England. The purple poppy is in remembrance for all the animals that gave their lives in world conflicts.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by flip

Curious if you are aware of the Dieppe "conspiracy theories". Basically the Canadians were sent to die to appease Stalin about the lack of a second front. There is more to it than that but considering Dieppe is probably the biggest blunder in Canadian military history it is worth discussing IMO.

Yes, I've read that in a lot of accounts that Stalin was pressuring the allies to open a second front. I'm sure that aspect was a part of the bigger picture, but a lot of the blame historically is laid on Mountbatten for all the planning failures, it was definitely doomed from the beginning.

[CaptainCrunch]

"Just as the defending force has gathered valuable experience from...Dieppe, so has the assaulting force...He will not do it like this a second time."
Field Marshal von Rundstedt - August 1942

[bigtmac19]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwa..._raid_06.shtml

"Much has been said since about the fact that the Dieppe raid was a necessary precursor to the great amphibious operations that were to follow, in terms of the lessons learned and experience gained. Mountbatten pursued that line all his life. But as Chief of Combined Operations, he did bear some of the responsibility for mounting the operation, so one can only comment, 'he would say that, wouldn't he?'

The disaster did point up the need for much heavier firepower in future raids. It was recognised that this should include aerial bombardment, special arrangements to be made for land armour, and intimate fire support right up to the moment when troops crossed the waterline (the most dangerous place on the beach) and closed with their objectives."

[Art Vandelay]

Do they still do Remembrance Day ceremonies in the gym at schools? Seeing the photographs, hearing the stories, and playing of the Last Post. Those were always a memorable day each year that put things into perspective for me at least. It would be a shame if these didn't happen anymore.

Thank you all for your sacrifice.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by temple5

When is it proper to wear it. I gave my 5$ for one today, but not sure when its proper to wear it, day of, 1 day in advance, 13 days in advance seems excessive - like malls playing Christmas music in September.

Traditionally they were worn in the two weeks prior to Remembrance Day. In practice, that basically means from November 1 on, since they aren't really sold until after halloween. Traditionally they are also removed at Remembrance Day ceremonies, and placed at a memorial.

Personally, I wear it from November 1, and remove it after the two minutes of silence on the 11th.

[4X4]

Anyone know what the deal is with that memorial cemetary on Memorial Drive? More specifically, is it permanent or is it just here for the next couple weeks?
I just noticed it today, it's a couple blocks west of center street. A few hundred crosses with names on them, lined up in the typical "Flanders Field" alignment.
I haven't driven Memorial in a couple weeks, but I'm sure I would have noticed it had it been there before. It also looks kinda temporary because there's temporary fencing around it. Seems like the kind of thing that would be a shame to deconstruct. Of course, it also seems like the kiind of thing some punk vandals or some anti-war lunatic would vandalize.