Liz Cheyney says NIN, Pearl Jam et al opposition to music used as torture "pathetic"

[flip]

Since there seems to be some confusion about how/why this is an issue, read the Washington Post article linked about halfway down this post. It isn't just NIN and PJ, there are literally dozens of bands who, without their knowledge, are having their music used to torture people.

I'll just refer to NINHotline to tell the story:

The political group "Keep America Safe," formed by former Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter and prominent birther, Liz Cheney, and right-wing pundit and Palin fanatic, Bill Kristol, has assaulted the efforts by Trent and other rock musicians to keep their music from being used for torture enhanced interrogation techniques as "pathetic" and "laughable". A "Keep America Safe" spokesperson went so far as to say "It's almost laughable to think that heavy metal bands like Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against the Machine have a moral authority on national security issues." I guess they don't think there's anything immoral in using someone else's creative talent and output in a way the artist finds reprehensible. If you're inclined to disagree with "Keep America Safe" on this issue and want to support Trent's efforts, check out the website closegitmonow.org and see how you can make a difference, including by making a contribution and spreading the word.

I urge those of you who also find this to be offensive to email "Keep America Safe" and tell them that these artists have a right to be pissed off that their music is being used as a method of torture.

aharison@keepamericasafe.com
info@keepamericasafe.com


I'm sure Troutman and others will have tons of hilarious "you mean listening to NIN isn't torture?" type comments, which is fine, it is CP after all but seriously this pisses me off.

Anyone interested in reading more can read this link:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...es-to-torment/


For a NIN slanted view on this topic please go to http://www.theninhotline.net/news/index.php


They have updates and good emails that have been sent to this group. I know there are a lot of RATM, REM, NIN and Pear Jam supporters on CP who might also oppose such ignorance and stupidity, albeit expected, from the Christian right.


I should clarify, it was not Liz Cheyney herself who said the above quote. It was a spokesman from her ultra right wing dbag group Keep America Safe who said it. However Cheyney is the founder of the group and as such deserves the blame. That and I couldn't fit Keep America Safe in the Thread Title.

[Nage Waza]

If using some music can prevent mass murder I am all for it.

[Sliver]

It'd be awesome if the prisoners started a mosh pit.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

If using some music can prevent mass murder I am all for it.

That is about as ignorant of a position I've ever read.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by flip

"you mean listening to NIN isn't torture?"

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[flip]

Originally Posted by J pold

You took the words right out of my mouth.

So you support the needless torture and dehumanization of innocent people?


I hope you aren't brown or muslim because you could be next. Luckily Obama isn't supportive of the needless torture of innocent civilians.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by flip

So you support the needless torture and dehumanization of innocent people?

As long as they're rockin out.

[Sliver]

Seriously though Flip I'll read the links tomorrow when I'm at work. I'm on my iPhone right now and checking all that stuff out would be a PITA on it.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by flip

So you support the needless torture and dehumanization of innocent people?

No and that's why I'm against playing NIN on the radio!

[Alpha_Q]

Originally Posted by flip

That is about as ignorant of a position I've ever read.

Which is almost as reprehensible as this;

"Keep America Safe" spokesperson went so far as to say "It's almost laughable to think that heavy metal bands like Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against the Machine have a moral authority on national security issues."

Isn't the right to property, even intellectual property, one of the features of good ol' capitalism that KAS would be trying to defend?

[J pold]

Originally Posted by flip

So you support the needless torture and dehumanization of innocent people?

No, I do not support those actions, furthermore I fail to see how you managed to make the jump in reasoning to arrive at the conclusion that is what my pervious post was stating but anyway.

I'll be honest the thread title and the paragraph you have selected to explain the issue are very unclear to me. Perhaps, because I'm not a NIN fan I'm missing something? How exactly is there music being used as torture? I do disagree with Ms. Cheyney saying that heavy metal bands lack any sort of moral authority but beyond that I'm not really sure what this issue is really about.

So are they just playing NIN to people they want to interrogate and that qualifies as torture?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Q

Which is almost as reprehensible as this;

"Keep America Safe" spokesperson went so far as to say "It's almost laughable to think that heavy metal bands like Nine Inch Nails and Rage Against the Machine have a moral authority on national security issues."

Isn't the right to property, even intellectual property, one of the features of good ol' capitalism that KAS would be trying to defend?

If they sell me their music they don't retain the right about how people choose to listen to it.

If the KAS was using it in ads or something than they would have an issue but I don't see why the KAS would defend the bands right to control how people listen to their music.

[flip]

Originally Posted by J pold

No, I do not support those actions, furthermore I fail to see how you managed to make the jump in reasoning to arrive at the conclusion that is what my pervious post was stating but anyway.

I'll be honest the thread title and the paragraph you have selected to explain the issue are very unclear to me. Perhaps, because I'm not a NIN fan I'm missing something? How exactly is there music being used as torture? I do disagree with Ms. Cheyney saying that heavy metal bands lack any sort of moral authority but beyond that I'm not really sure what this issue is really about.

So are they just playing NIN to people they want to interrogate and that qualifies as torture?

I was half kidding. Obviously just because you made a NIN joke you don't support torture. However, my way of sensationalizing and putting words in your mouth is a common thing on CP so I thought I'd join in.


To actually answer your question as to how the music is being used as torture, I would say you should read the washington post link that I posted. (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...es-to-torment/)

In a sentence, they are basically blasting various heavy metal bands at torturous decibel levels on prisoners hoping that they will admit to some plot to destroy the US.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by J pold

I'll be honest the thread title and the paragraph you have selected to explain the issue are very unclear to me. Perhaps, because I'm not a NIN fan I'm missing something? How exactly is there music being used as torture? I do disagree with Ms. Cheyney saying that heavy metal bands lack any sort of moral authority but beyond that I'm not really sure what this issue is really about.

So are they just playing NIN to people they want to interrogate and that qualifies as torture?

They are using music that is offensive to middle eastern tastes at high volume to cause sleep deprivation, basically.

How these bands have determined that their music is what is being used, I don't know.

From a legal perspective, I guess the artists are owed royalties for their tunes being played in a public performance (if gitmo counts as a public forum), and maybe even have grounds for a lawsuit since the music was used without prior permission.

The other thing that I'm wondering now, if the artists do have a leg to stand on concerning unlawful/unauthorized use of their music, is if this is an opening for second tier musicians to step in and craft some music specifically for this purpose. Maybe the DHS can become a patron of the arts, if you will.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by J pold

So are they just playing NIN to people they want to interrogate and that qualifies as torture?

Apparently they played it at very loud volumes for 24 hours a day to soften them up and confuse them -- a psychological torture.

I've read that some music has also been used to insult the prisoner's religious beliefs. Not anti-Muslim music but stuff that would offend a fundamentalist Muslim -- women moaning and singing about sex and whatnot.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

So let me get this straight. The US has Gitmo so that they can detain and torture suspected foreign terrorists without legal consequence and they're going to be worried about a bunch of musicians complaining about them playing their music there?

[flip]

Hopefully this story will make the Daily Show. John Stewart is vehemently anti-torture. That will help the story gain some leverage.

[Alpha_Q]

Originally Posted by moon

If they sell me their music they don't retain the right about how people choose to listen to it.

If the KAS was using it in ads or something than they would have an issue but I don't see why the KAS would defend the bands right to control how people listen to their music.

IF it is being used as a form of psychological torture the artists have a right to complain. Whether this falls under the term torture or not is up for debate. It is used to break the will of, let's jsut say prisoners. The European Court of Human Rights and other groups have banned loud music as an interrogation method.

Anyway, I'm sure the Oilers would be willing to let their goal-horn be used. Unless it hasn't rusted from lack of use already.

[moon]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

From a legal perspective, I guess the artists are owed royalties for their tunes being played in a public performance (if gitmo counts as a public forum), and maybe even have grounds for a lawsuit since the music was used without prior permission.

No they aren't owed royalties or else every single person who has a party and plays a CD would owe bands royalties.

Surprisingly they don't charge the prisoners any money to come to Gitmo and listen to the music so they don't have to pay the artists any money if they play their music there.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Alpha_Q

IF it is being used as a form of psychological torture the artists have a right to complain. Whether this falls under the term torture or not is up for debate. It is used to break the will of, let's jsut say prisoners. The European Court of Human Rights and other groups have banned loud music as an interrogation method.

Anyway, I'm sure the Oilers would be willing to let their goal-horn be used. Unless it hasn't rusted from lack of use already.

They have the same right to complain that flip does and if it is deemed illegal then it isn't an issue for the artists to deal with anyways.

Intellectual property rights do not come into to play at all though when it comes to this issue.