I thanked you because I basically agree with you, although if there is one religion I think deserves all the criticism it gets, it's this one. I'm a Christian and I know my faith is outnumbered here, but I'll say that I can't believe the nonsense that Scientology spews. And that people buy it.
The reason these threads always go the same way isn't necessarily because of the athiests. When I read stuff like this, it makes my head explode.
Christianity is filled with just as much garbage as Scientology (e.g. a virgin giving birth, the earth is just thousands of years old, somebody rising from the dead, and the holy trinity which is totally nonsensical for a monotheistic religion, etc.). Yet here you are saying exactly what all of us say about your religion. W...T...F.
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Originally Posted by Sliver
The reason these threads always go the same way isn't necessarily because of the athiests. When I read stuff like this, it makes my head explode.
Christianity is filled with just as much garbage as Scientology (e.g. a virgin giving birth, the earth is just thousands of years old, somebody rising from the dead, and the holy trinity which is totally nonsensical for a monotheistic religion, etc.). Yet here you are saying exactly what all of us say about your religion. W...T...F.
I'm not going to debate your other points, but the one I bolded, is a little silly.
Are the semantics behind "Monotheistic" and the Trinity really that big of a beef for you? Why exactly is arbitrarily assiging strictly defined words to situations where it isn't 100% consistent reasonable grounds to refute something?
This type of thing really annoys me, becauce whenever one of these arguments comes up, both sides make these kinds of statements to disprove the other, and they're all just running in circles looking sounding ignorant.
It's no different than when dumb ass creation science folks, use the word "Theory" where it isn't consistent and use it to support their arguments.
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Last edited by Bring_Back_Shantz; 10-27-2009 at 01:13 PM.
I'm not going to debate your other points, but the one I bolded, is a little silly.
Are the semantics behind "Monotheistic" and the Trinity really that big of a beef for you? Why exactly is arbitrarily assiging strictly defined words to situations where it isn't 100% consistent reasonable grounds to refute something?
I suppose semantics is a component of it, but my beef is with the imposibility of this equation: Jesus + God + Holy Ghost = God. It's nonsense.
When I stopped going to church, church going people thought much less of me, and let me know it in very aggressive ways. One person even told me I was ruining my life.
Unless you went to the nuttiest catholic church ever with the nuttiest nutbars every in attendance what you saw as "very aggressive" is absolutely nothing compared to what scientology does. If someone even went as far as tell you you were ruining your life you have absolutely nothing on what people leaving scientology go through. Please educate yourself and/or stop making ridiculous statements.
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Originally Posted by HotHotHeat
Why do people choose religion as a vehicle to give money to the poor? Can we say one way or the other that religion makes providing for the less fortunate more effective?
Its easy and convenient and well known. The support structure and organization is already in place. In your opinion, it may not be the best way to go about things and on that I would agree with you; but there are certain advantages.
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Originally Posted by HotHotHeat
As far as differences between Catholicism and scientology, the most obvious one is that the Catholic church is much older. Beyond that, they both have had their share of ridiculousness/irrationality.
You can knock the rationality of the dogma if you want... that's not really what we're discussing. The behavior of the two churchs are wildly different.
Unless you went to the nuttiest catholic church ever with the nuttiest nutbars every in attendance what you saw as "very aggressive" is absolutely nothing compared to what scientology does. If someone even went as far as tell you you were ruining your life you have absolutely nothing on what people leaving scientology go through. Please educate yourself and/or stop making ridiculous statements.
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It would be interesting to see what Scientology's version of The Inquisition would look like.
Cowperson
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I'm not going to debate your other points, but the one I bolded, is a little silly.
Why wouldn't you debate all his points?
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This type of thing really annoys me, becauce whenever one of these arguments comes up, both sides make these kinds of statements to disprove the other, and they're all just running in circles looking sounding ignorant.
Disagree, I have yet to see anyone disprove any statement I could make disproving a christian/religious god. The thumpers jump in with a statement and never back it up. They run away like little kids caught in a lie.
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Originally Posted by T@T
Why wouldn't you debate all his points?
Disagree, I have yet to see anyone disprove any statement I could make disproving a christian/religious god. The thumpers jump in with a statement and never back it up. They run away like little kids caught in a lie.
I'm more than ready if anyone wants a debate.
I won't debate his other statements because in the context of his post they are perfectly logical points to make.
The problem I had with his other statement was that it's an example of using semantics to debate theology, which is completely self defeating.
To your second point, you completely missed my point. Debating the sematics of "Monotheism" is akin to creationists debating what "Theory" means as if it somehow discredits evolution. If you're debating the exact meaning of a word that you've arbitrarily applied to your opponents position, it's an inherently weak argument.
Now, would it be rude if I pointed out that you come across as being so intent on getting into an anti-religion debate with a "Thumper", that you can't even recognize when someone is pointing out that most of their arguments are logical fallacies? I mean the whole point of my argument was that these sorts of arguments don't prove anything, and you reply with "I disagree, no one has ever proved me wrong"...really...
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You know who are almost as crazy as Scientologists? Those Anonymous guys who wear V masks and protest outside their "churches" all the time. Have any of you ever actually read their pamphlets against Scientology?
Underground slave labour camps?! Really? A private navy?! A secret police force?!
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As someone who has donned a Guy Fawkes mask and protested Scientology as Anonymous in 2008, I can confidently tell you that the cult is, for all intents and purposes, dead in Calgary. Though we did have a branch here in the 70's, it's long been defunct for over 30 years. The woman that was running it saw how the cult -- and therefore her by proxy -- was frauding people out of large sums of money preying on their false hope of enlightenment. She came clean, disbanded the Calgary branch, and has gone into hiding ever since.
If you google 'Scientology Calgary' you will get a listing for a church branch, but I've already gone to that address and investigated. It's now a country kitchen diner.
As someone who has donned a Guy Fawkes mask and protested Scientology as Anonymous in 2008, I can confidently tell you that the cult is, for all intents and purposes, dead in Calgary. Though we did have a branch here in the 70's, it's long been defunct for over 30 years. The woman that was running it saw how the cult -- and therefore her by proxy -- was frauding people out of large sums of money preying on their false hope of enlightenment. She came clean, disbanded the Calgary branch, and has gone into hiding ever since.
If you google 'Scientology Calgary' you will get a listing for a church branch, but I've already gone to that address and investigated. It's now a country kitchen diner.
Can I ask what's up with the pamphelts Anonymous hands out? Is the whole underground slave labour crap just there to rile up-tight Scientologists up or something? Do people in Anonymous actually believe this?
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Can I ask what's up with the pamphelts Anonymous hands out? Is the whole underground slave labour crap just there to rile up-tight Scientologists up or something? Do people in Anonymous actually believe this?
No, it's not there to rile up Scientologists. It's there to open the eyes of the general public, because it is absolutely 100% true.
I've never heard of this Anonymous stuff. Do these people actually stand out with Guy Fawkes masks and protest ala V for Vendetta?
(fixed spelling)
Forgive me, but due to the distinct lack of Scientology presence in Calgary, I'm not up on Anonymous' recent activities against Scientology. To my knowledge, protests still take place in some locales, but not nearly on the scale that they used to in 2008. But yes, they do usually wear some kind of mask. The Guy Fawkes mask is the mask of choice, given the impact it had in the V for Vendetta story and film, but really, anything that covers your face is preferred. The purpose was to make it exceedingly difficult to identify the people protesting, because Scientology has a nasty history of tracking such people down and making their lives a living hell.
Last edited by HeartsOfFire; 10-27-2009 at 04:25 PM.
No, it's not there to rile up Scientologists. It's there to open the eyes of the general public, because it is absolutely 100% true.
You actually believe Scientologist have underground slave labour camps, have their own private navy, and a secret police force? And this isn't as whacko as the beliefs of Scientologists themselves... how?
I mean, you really think they have UNDERGROUND slave labour camps? The Guy Fawkes masks seem as much flourishing drama as believing they have their own private navy. Or do rich celebrities' yachts count as ships in it?
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
You actually believe Scientologist have underground slave labour camps, have their own private navy, and a secret police force? And this isn't as whacko as the beliefs of Scientologists themselves... how?
I mean, you really think they have UNDERGROUND slave labour camps? The Guy Fawkes masks seem as much flourishing drama as believing they have their own private navy. Or do rich celebrities' yachts count as ships in it?
Underground, no. It's out in the open. Privately owned and not open to the public, but it exists. The Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF)
As for the private navy, they USED to have one, back when Hubbard was the head of the cult. Now instead, their private navy and secret police force are one and the same: The Sea Org.
Scientology also owns a Cruise ship. A fully functioning cruise ship, like one of those you take vacations on. They OWN it. Keel to mast. It's called the Freewinds. It's old, though... at least twenty or so. Late last year, Anonymous learned that the Freewinds had an asbestos problem in the walls of the ship, and as such it was forced to stay moored somewhere in Europe until the problem could be fixed. Rather than pay for an asbestos removal crew to take care of it, they got their own volunteers to remove it haphazardly, akin to picking up piles of leaves raked off the front lawn. Scientologists believe themselves impervious to disease, so Asbestos doesn't frighten them.
Underground, no. It's out in the open. Privately owned and not open to the public, but it exists.
As for the private navy, they USED to have one, back when Hubbard was the head of the cult. Now instead, their private navy and secret police force are one and the same: The Sea Org.
Scientology also owns a Cruise ship. A fully functioning cruise ship, like one of those you take vacations on. They OWN it. Keel to mast. It's called the Freewinds. It's old, though... at least twenty or so. Late last year, Anonymous learned that the Freewinds had an asbestos problem in the walls of the ship, and as such it was forced to stay moored somewhere in Europe until the problem could be fixed. Rather than pay for an asbestos removal crew to take care of it, they got their own volunteers to remove it haphazardly, akin to picking up piles of leaves raked off the front lawn. Scientologists believe themselves impervious to disease, so Asbestos doesn't frighten them.
So let them believe they are impervious to disease... Christian Scientists refuse to take medicine, too. I also heard the Vatican owns a lot of things... Possibly even a cruise ship. Are they not allowed to own a cruise ship? Are they going to become pirates off the coast of Somalia?
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
So let them believe they are impervious to disease... Christian Scientists refuse to take medicine, too. I also heard the Vatican owns a lot of things... Possibly even a cruise ship. Are they not allowed to own a cruise ship? Are they going to become pirates off the coast of Somalia?
It was in line with the 'private navy' topic. Though I got a bit carried away and went off on a tangent. :P
The founder of Scientology -- Lafayette Ron Hubbard (L. Ron Hubbard, or LRH) -- was a man of the sea and had a career as a naval officer during the second world war. Lots of early activities in Scientology were conducted on the ocean on boats the cult owned. Now, it's just the one big cruise ship.
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