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Old 10-26-2009, 08:17 AM   #21
Swarly
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Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos View Post
Why would anyone have to "justify their existence"? There are casinos all over town. Who justifies their existence? Why were white people given casinos?
only in Calgary, not too many other cities have 7 casinos (soon to be 8 at cross iron mills? if that is still happening). Like in the US gambling is illegal except in certain spots (Nevada, Atlantic City) and the Native Casino's are the only ones in most states.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:28 AM   #22
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One of the big issues (at least in Alberta, as that's where I'm familliar with) is not necessarily the taxes that casinos pay. It's the fact that money made by casinos must be allocated to a charity, and the casino is basically making rent money off of their building.

The difference with Native casinos is that they aren't required to host charities, so they get to keep the gaming revenue.

You couple that with the fact that they don't have to pay any tax on it, and you've got one hell of a money maker.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:40 AM   #23
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The Grey Eagle has had a big impact on other casinos in Calgary. Since Grey Eagle permits smoking, casinos held by charities in Calgary now bring in $70K over two days, instead of $100K +.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:41 AM   #24
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I would like to hear someone's plan to exterminate all casinos within 5 years.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:14 AM   #25
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In Alberta, Casino operators receive a set percentage of revenues in which they try to make a profit. A set percentage goes to "charity" and the remainder to the Alberta government to cover operational costs (all slot machines, for instance, are government owned and maintained), and to support social programs etc.

For instance slot revenues are split 15-15-70. Operator-Charity-Government. Native run casinos are considered to be their own charity so they essentially split 30-70 (double the normal operator percentage).

As Troutman indicated they are also free to set their own operational policies, and have a monopoly on the "smoking" clientele which have boosted revenues compared to other casinos significantly.

Charity volunteer groups have their earnings pooled, which essentially mean they make the same no matter what casino they volunteer at. I'm not sure if the Native Casinos have their "volunteer" portion pooled or if they have an examption and keep what was made at their facility.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:28 AM   #26
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The Grey Eagle has had a big impact on other casinos in Calgary. Since Grey Eagle permits smoking, casinos held by charities in Calgary now bring in $70K over two days, instead of $100K +.
It also helps that they have the best buffet and price. I HATE the f-ing smoke though. Who the hell smokes anymore? it's not 1962!
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:06 AM   #27
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The difference with Native casinos is that they aren't required to host charities, so they get to keep the gaming revenue.
They have to operate under the same rules as the other casinos in the Province, including having a certain percentage of the gaming revenue go to charity. The difference is that the Reserve itself is set up as the charity that receives that revenue from the Reserve casinos. That revenue is regulated and must be spent on things that will lead to the betterment of the Reserve, things like infrastructure, skills training, and cultural events.

Here is the Alberta information: http://www.aglc.gov.ab.ca/gaming/FirstNationsPolicy.asp
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:27 AM   #28
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If you dont like the way the casinos are operated, dont go to reserve casinos - its very simple. I make a choice to support city of Calgary when I go play poker. I refuse to go to the grey eagle because of this and because of the ring road screw job.

Hurt them with your wallets if you care about such things. Money is the only thing that carries weight.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:32 AM   #29
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I will never set foot in Grey Eagle after this ring road garbage.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:44 AM   #30
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When another day comes I would be interested in this story. There are a lot of ignorant comments made on internet message boards, from myself as well, and I would really be interested on an insiders take.
our council smuggles money and gives handouts to their family members. the elders rarely see anything from the profits. people in need of housing don't get it but instead are pushed to the back in the line. my mom and i had to fight and go above the housing committee to get a one bedroom side-by-side.

they play favourites a lot, pick and choose who gets a paycheque. if they don't like you or your family you won't get anything. people who dont even live on the reserve are getting monthly welfare cheques. the cheif who claims to be "fighting for change" is never here. it's just really, really bad. some of the ignorant comments you see aren't far from the truth at all which is really sad.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:54 AM   #31
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I have a pet peeve about native casinos. Why don't they have to play by the same rules as other casinos? They don't have to contribute 1/3 of their profits to charitable organizations or ban smoking. Their not having to give 1/3 to charity like every other casino in the province bugs me. Having a 1/3 higher profit margin gives them a competitive edge, and I think all casino's should be on the same business playing field.

I don't care about the smoking bit so much, other than it seems to give them another advantage over other casinos as I suspect casino patrons are more likely to be smokers than the general population. That's just a generalization on my part, but it's based on having worked as a casino volunteer for charitable orgs for many years, both before and since the smoking ban has taken effect.
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:01 AM   #32
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I didn't know 70% of the revenues go back to the government! Not that I ever really go to casinos, but damn. That's a good motivating factor to never go to a casino ever again. I pay enough taxes already, thankyouverymuch.
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:51 PM   #33
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McSweeney's had an interesting timeline in regards to the history of the casinos in the States.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/casino/casino3.html

Bad Luck: A Timeline, of Gaming, Gambling & Native Peoples in North America.
BY LESLIE MCDONALD

- - - -

12th −15th Century: The Aztecs of central Mexico participate in numerous games, including Ullamaliztli, a ball and hoop game, and Patolli, a board game. Gambling was endemic to both.

Late 18th − Early 19th Century: Lotteries prevalent throughout early America. Because there were few means of taxation and fewer banks, lotteries were seen as an acceptable way to raise funds for projects that benefited the common good. Many hospitals, orphanages, schools and universities were funded in this way, including, depending on whom you believe, such august institutions as Harvard, Princeton and Yale.

1824: Without authorization from Congress Secretary of War, John C. Calhoun creates the Office of Indian Affairs. In 1847 the office is renamed to the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) and two years later is transferred to the Department of the Interior.

1848 −1855: The high-stakes gambling venture known as the California Gold Rush lures over a quarter of a million Americans to the West Coast.

1876: Battle of Little Bighorn: Everyone knows how this one turned out, but what's often overlooked is that the massacre took place eight years after the Sioux Treaty of 1868. These treaties were a key component of the BIA playbook and sought to accomplish three things 1) bring an end to the Indian Wars 2) displace Indians onto reservations 3) recognize tribes as sovereign nations. George Armstrong Custer had led a gold mining expedition into the Black Hills in 1874—land that had been ceded to the Sioux as part of the treaty—and they were not happy to see him again. Not to state the obvious, but Custer was a notorious gambler.

1878: Rampant corruption leads to states criminalizing lotteries. Louisiana becomes the only state in which it is legal to operate a lottery.

1882: The National Police Gazette reports that more money is bet on the game of faro than any other game of chance. Faro is a card game that was extremely popular in the West, particularly during the Gold Rush. All those woodcuts of cowboys playing poker? Faro.

1895: A San Francisco automobile mechanic by the name of Charles Fey invents the first mechanical slot machine. The three-reel machine weighed 100 pounds and paid out a jackpot of ten nickels. Fey's invention is on display in Reno at the Liberty Belle Saloon and Restaurant. Fey's second effort featured images of fruit that are still used today. Slot machines were popular in saloons, but because jackpots couldn't be regulated, they were paid out by the bartenders, usually in the form of drinks. Slot machines were often confused with another mechanical marvel of the age: the vending machine. Enterprising chewing game manufacturers capitalized on this confusion by making their machines resemble slot machines. Although the product disappeared a long time ago, the symbol for BAR chewing gum is still in use on slot machines today.

1900: 1,000 registered faro houses in the Arizona Territory. Faro, it should be noted, offers no competitive advantage to the faro bank or house, which led to widespread cheating and even more widespread mayhem.

1907: The game of faro is outlawed in the Arizona Territory.

1910: Nevada becomes the last state in the West to outlaw gambling.

1918: The last battle between the U.S. Army and American Indians takes place in Southern Arizona.

1931: The Northern Club (formerly the Las Vegas Coffee House before the repeal of Prohibition) becomes the first establishment in Las Vegas to open a licensed casino after Nevada legalizes gambling.

1946: The gangster Bugsy Seigel fills the Flamingo Casino with slot machines to keep the wives and girlfriends of serious gamblers entertained.

1963: Bally invents the first electromechanical slot machine, allowing for greater accuracy and bigger payouts. Bally's innovation makes the lever obsolete.

1964: New Hampshire legalizes a state-run lottery. New York swiftly follows suit. Arguments ensue as to whether a lottery is a game of chance or a form of taxation, an argument that persists today.

1974: Fortune Coin, the first video slot machine, is introduced. The public, however, is slow to accept the new technology.

1977: New Jersey permits legalized gambling in Atlantic City.

1981: Seminole Tribe vs. Sheriff Butterworth. In this landmark decision, federal courts ruled that if a state sanctions some form of legalized gambling, tribes in that state cannot be prohibited from gambling on their own lands. A similar ruling was upheld six years later in 1987 (California vs. Cabazon). The key issue here is the federal government's recognition of tribes as sovereign nations.

1988: Congress passes Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. With the passage of IGRA, states and tribes are compelled to negotiate. Ironically, tribes were opposed to the act because it imposed limitations on the scope of gaming operations, but today it's the states who are contesting that IGRA doesn't go far enough, i.e. they want a bigger piece of the casino pie. IGRA's biggest opponent? The state of Nevada.

1998: California Governor Pete Wilson negotiates a compact with the Pala Band of Mission Indians in San Diego, CA, authorizing Las Vegas-style gambling. Dissatisfied with the limits of the compact, Proposition 5 was added to the ballot at a cost of $90 million. When Proposition 5 passed, it lowered the age of gambling to 18 and eliminated limits to the number of games a casino could operate.

1999: California Supreme Court kills Proposition 5. Governor Pete Wilson negotiates compacts with 61 tribes to authorize Class III gaming on tribal lands.

2000: Proposition 1A, affirming the rights of tribes to operate casino-style gaming on tribal land, passed by California voters.

2003: The Sycuan Band of Kumeyaay Indians buys the U.S. Grant, a luxury hotel in downtown San Diego named for the President who presided over the Indian Wars. The tribe does not rename the hotel.

2005: Residence Inn Capitol becomes the first Indian-owned casino in Washington, D.C. Its location is ideal for visiting the Museum of the Native American and lobbying on Capitol Hill.

2006: Seminole Tribe of Florida buys the Hard Rock Café franchise, including 68 properties around the world. Tribal representative declares: "Our ancestors sold Manhattan for trinkets. We're going to buy Manhattan back, one hamburger at a time."

2009: The naming rights to a sports arena on the campus of San Diego State University are awarded to the Kumeyaay tribe. SDSU's team name? The Aztecs.
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:52 PM   #34
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I didn't know 70% of the revenues go back to the government! Not that I ever really go to casinos, but damn. That's a good motivating factor to never go to a casino ever again. I pay enough taxes already, thankyouverymuch.
thats only if you lose though.

I mean do people actually lose money in casinos?
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:32 PM   #35
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I spent a whole winter on an Indian Reservation east of Calgary back in the 70's and came to the conclusion that the only way the Natives were going to get off the dole and better their way of life, was to create some enterprise that enabled them to support themselves.

IMO, casinoes may be part of the answer to their problems. Hopefully, in the long run, the casinoes will give them greater feeling of self worth than they receive from the Federal system.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:45 PM   #36
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Even with profitable enterprises, reservations are ripe with corruption so there will always be the same issues.

My family's cottage is on native land, along with over 300 others for which the tribe gets a considerable amount of money from the leases, and I've seen first hand how making money still doesn't change the third world living conditions. The government gave them money to pave the road on the land but instead they oil and grate the dirt road while pocketing that money.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:57 PM   #37
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Just curious but neither of these replies offered an answer.

Is part of the justification not that it allows them to raise funds to help rebuild their shattered culture?

I'm aware theU is being sarcastic but I don't really have any other valid explanations.
Sorry, Flip, I didn't go into this thread since I posted that. I forgot all about it.

What you said is fair, and I apologize for not being more open about it.
First of all, to paint it that all natives have casinos and that they do it all for the same reason is wrong. Not all natives have casinos. Where I am from there are at least 6 native communities around where I live, and not one of them has a casino, nor would I think they would want want. They battle enough issues with alcohol and drug abuse, and they are not money grubbing enough to want a casino just for financial gain.

Secondly, some native bands may very well decide to build a casino in order to rebuild their culture. I wouldn't agree with that reasoning, but the reason why they would in say Calgary or Edmonton is because there is no land left for them to practice their culture. I think that some of them reason out that they can earn funding through a casino in order to help pay for facilities and gatherings to practice their culture.

My objection is that he was painting every native with the same brush. Indians and casinos. That is simply wrong. Native history is very rich and they are very proud. They are human like everyone else, and do things for money, or for other reasons that are not always the best. But they don't deserve to be painted with the same brush. It is like saying all white people are like _____. It is wrong, and to me it appeared to be veiled racism.

I apologize if that was not the intent, The U, but talking about other people like that can get you in hot water. Just like all blacks eat fried chicken. I wouldn't normally have said anything at all but that pressed my button.
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:09 PM   #38
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Wait a second...casinos donate to charity? So they make people broke as hell and then donate to the same charity that provides the food stamps for the gambler.

Casinos do have a heart after all.
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:53 PM   #39
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Wait a second...casinos donate to charity? So they make people broke as hell and then donate to the same charity that provides the food stamps for the gambler.

Casinos do have a heart after all.
Casinos don't make people broke as hell.
######s who gamble with the rent money make themselves broke as hell.

I know I just opened up a can of worms about addiction/opportunity, but I'm a firm believer that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. Addiction or not, it's their choice to step into that casino, so it is noone but themselves that puts them in the poor house.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:06 PM   #40
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In Alberta, Casino operators receive a set percentage of revenues in which they try to make a profit. A set percentage goes to "charity" and the remainder to the Alberta government to cover operational costs (all slot machines, for instance, are government owned and maintained), and to support social programs etc.

For instance slot revenues are split 15-15-70. Operator-Charity-Government. Native run casinos are considered to be their own charity so they essentially split 30-70 (double the normal operator percentage).

As Troutman indicated they are also free to set their own operational policies, and have a monopoly on the "smoking" clientele which have boosted revenues compared to other casinos significantly.

Charity volunteer groups have their earnings pooled, which essentially mean they make the same no matter what casino they volunteer at. I'm not sure if the Native Casinos have their "volunteer" portion pooled or if they have an examption and keep what was made at their facility.
Thanks for this explanation. I assume similar agreements exist for Native Casinos in the U.S. and other parts of Canada?

Do you know what a 'regular' business like a grocery store would be taxed at on a Native Reserve and how that would compare to a grocery store in a city centre like Calgary?
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