Vatican tries to wiggle out of sex abuse scams by....

[Cheese]

(preface) yes another one of these threads. If you dont like them dont read them.

focusing paedophilia on other religions? Isnt this sort of like the pot calling the kettle black?

Sex abuse rife in other religions, says Vatican

The Vatican has lashed out at criticism over its handling of its paedophilia crisis by saying the Catholic church was "busy cleaning its own house" and that the problems with clerical sex abuse in other churches were as big, if not bigger.

In a defiant and provocative statement, issued following a meeting of the UN human rights council in Geneva, the Holy See said the majority of Catholic clergy who committed such acts were not paedophiles but homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males.

The statement, read out by Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican's permanent observer to the UN, defended its record by claiming that "available research" showed that only 1.5%-5% of Catholic clergy were involved in child sex abuse.

(So only 5 out of a hundred Priests are molestors? Thats ok then...right? right?...anyone?)

and in yesterdays news:


News of child pornography charges against a Newfoundland-born Roman Catholic former bishop have sparked a range of emotions in his home province.

Former Antigonish, N.S., diocese bishop Raymond Lahey is charged with possessing and importing child pornography.

Bishop's porn charges ignites shock, anger in N.L

"It will stir up in people, again, all of the history that has gone on in the past, of the abuse. That's what I fear may happen," said Currie in St. John's on Wednesday.

The charges prompt memories of the now notorious Mount Cashel orphanage of St. John's.

The orphanage opened in 1875 to care for orphaned and needy boys. It closed in 1990 after charges were brought against brothers for sexually abusing or beating boys who lived in the orphanage in the 1960s and 1970s.

In 2003, 81 victims of abuse at the former Mount Cashel orphanage were awarded nearly $16 million in compensation for physical and sexual abuse from the Christian Brothers who administered the facility.

[flylock shox]

I actually think 1.5-5% is a stunningly high number (particularly if it's their downplayed number).

If that refers to all Catholic clergy, I'd be interested to know how many child sex abusers that translates into.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I actually think 1.5-5% is a stunningly high number (particularly if it's their downplayed number).

If that refers to all Catholic clergy, I'd be interested to know how many child sex abusers that translates into.

No level is acceptable, but I guess the question is: how does it compare with the general population?

[normtwofinger]

Homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males are paedophiles!

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I actually think 1.5-5% is a stunningly high number (particularly if it's their downplayed number).

If that refers to all Catholic clergy, I'd be interested to know how many child sex abusers that translates into.

It would be useful to compare that number with the general population - its extremely hard to find prevalence numbers, but one that I did find estimates it at around 4% of the general population. That seems high to me, but it does put the number in line with Church's numbers.

[killer_carlson]

here we go again.

Maybe we should start a new forum on here about crapping on religion. Then you could put all of the threads in there and you can all get off about how much better you are than than those who practise organized religion.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

It would be useful to compare that number with the general population - its extremely hard to find prevalence numbers, but one that I did find estimates it at around 4% of the general population. That seems high to me, but it does put the number in line with Church's numbers.

Did you get that stat from this link?

If that's accurate, I guess the next questions are "what proportion of that 4% ever act on their impulses" and "how reliable are the Vatican's figures?"

I'm guessing the 1.5-5% figure is a shot in the dark.

[Cheese]

from the article...

The statement said that rather than paedophilia, it would "be more correct" to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males.
"Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90% belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17."

This makes it better right? hmmm...right?

[starseed]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

Homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males are paedophiles!

Just for clarification, child molesters rarely are gay. This site cites some studies: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_chil.htm

Its fun to blame one minority, but unfortunately that position cannot be defended when these 'science' and 'facts' things come into the argument.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Did you get that stat from this link?

If that's accurate, I guess the next questions are "what proportion of that 4% ever act on their impulses" and "how reliable are the Vatican's figures?"

I'm guessing the 1.5-5% figure is a shot in the dark.

God told them that percentage...

[normtwofinger]

"the Holy See said the majority of Catholic clergy who committed such acts were not paedophiles but homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males."

Sorry, I didn't mean to blame the entire situation on homosexuals. The quote from the article seemed to be a copout by the church. Instead of calling it what it is, they are trying to sugar coat it. Sexual attraction and sexual acts with adolencents is paedophilia, homosexual or hetrosexual.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Celibacy................it doesnt work.

[starseed]

Someone got me! Usually I am the one pointing out that people fail to detect sarcasm.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Cheese

from the article...

The statement said that rather than paedophilia, it would "be more correct" to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males.
"Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90% belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17."

This makes it better right? hmmm...right?

Nope, but it makes it easier.

[You Need a Thneed]

The percentage is likely very close to what it is in the general population, whatever that percentage is.

But the vatican trying to condone the action by saying that is totally off base. No number higher than 0 is acceptable.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Celibacy................it doesnt work.

Seriously, they would do well to end that ridiculous policy.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

here we go again.

Maybe we should start a new forum on here about crapping on religion. Then you could put all of the threads in there and you can all get off about how much better you are than than those who practise organized religion.

This is about crapping on sexual abusers of children in positions of trust, and in this case the Catholic church which has very much earned the anger and frustration of not just non believers but amongst the Catholic community as they deal with this problem worldwide.

The fact that a vatican official tries to excuse it saying other religions are just as bad if not worse, that its not pedophilia its homosexuality (another shot at gay people good job Vatican), thats the problem.

Again you have the choice to click on this thread, these threads in a week of posting probably represent 1.5 - 5% of the topics posted here, you don't have to participate if this offends you or you find it tiresome.

[killer_carlson]

Thor

This is another retread of the same topic we get on here each week. This week its about catholics. Next week muslims. Week after that it will be about mormons or an offshoot of the LDS. Then on to the jews. Back to Catholics. Add a dose of anglican criticism. Then back to the muslims again.

Rinse and repeat.

If you dont like someone pointing out the obvious, then dont respond to my posts in this thread. Im catholic. I find these allegations disgusting if true. But at the same time Im also tired of the holier-than-thou agnostics or athiests who go out of their way to sensationalize every religious scandal to talk about how smart they are that they dont practice. This week its catholics, and like I said above, next week it will be someone else, and it never ends.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The percentage is likely very close to what it is in the general population, whatever that percentage is.

I doubt it - there's a selection bias where careers that bring sexual predators into contact with their preferred victims will be over-represented in their populations; if you want to diddle teenage boys, you will tend towards activities and careers that bring you into contact with them.

I don't know about the 1.5-4% number, though, it seems pretty high. That seems to assume that the vast majority of such priests go undetected, as despite the publicized cases, nowhere near that number have actually been accused or convicted. I would guess that the current and long-running social hysteria about "pedophiles" informed the methodology behind those numbers, and that 10% of that number is more like reality.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by jammies

I don't know about the 1.5-4% number, though, it seems pretty high. That seems to assume that the vast majority of such priests go undetected, as despite the publicized cases, nowhere near that number have actually been accused or convicted. I would guess that the current and long-running social hysteria about "pedophiles" informed the methodology behind those numbers, and that 10% of that number is more like reality.

Not so sure jammies...there are a lot of sites out there like SNAP that might suggest otherwise.
ABUSE TRACKER

Regardless...you could be absolutely correct. If its 1% it is still abhorent that men of the cloth who are supposed to espouse the doctrine of complete love and trust, use this position to act as predators.
I feel the same way about teachers or other groups who we are supposed to trust in the same way.

The Church still tries to bend it away from Paedophilia by suggesting this in the article...


The statement said that rather than paedophilia, it would "be more correct" to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males.
"Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90% belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17."

Of course this makes it ok.