Forgive me for starting a new topic on this, I am sure it has been disscused and dissected ad lib. My question is what are these people not getting about this? This is not a political issue, This is not a finacial issue, this is not a pork barrel issue? This is a compassion issue amongst brother to brother, man to man! If you have a cold enough heart to let your low income - to medium income people suffer without care - I believe it's time for those groups to rise against! If your government has to pay for Joe Smith's healthcare and Warren Buffet's healthcare - so be it, as long as it is fair amongst everyone. Equality for all, is the words I am looking for! Welcome to 5 years ago NE Goon, but maybe the Americans can enlighten me why this is happening?
The biggest difference between Canadians and Americans, and it has nothing to do with compassion, is that Americans as a whole do not believe that government is really all that efficient when it comes to running/managing anything. They mistrust public administration (And quite rightfully so). So they're a little weary of handing their lives over to a government bureaucracy.
Because there are many people there that are deathly afraid of whatever they think looks like communism (to them). Rationally, or not.
Besides the other issues involved directly with the health care 'reform,' the aspect of socialism to it seems to have a lot of people freaking. At least it seems that way to me.
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"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
Obama wants to set up a self-sufficient insurance option in places that have limited options. It will be 100% funded by premiums, and they wont have to cover that massive overhead cost. Thats why the Americans are having such a hard time accepting it.
Because there are many people there that are deathly afraid of whatever they think looks like communism (to them). Rationally, or not.
Besides the other issues involved directly with the health care 'reform,' the aspect of socialism to it seems to have a lot of people freaking. At least it seems that way to me.
I often hear people here refer to Canadians as "communists". And this "reform" is not even nationalized health care anyway.
While there certainly are people out there that will play the 'socialist' or 'communist' card too many times, you also have to realize that the American people live in a country that is running out of money. Their government has out of control spending and numerous social programs are on the verge of going bankrupt.
That, along with a recession, and a banking problem they still haven't solved yet, plus a Federal Government that has way too much frickin' power, equals a people that doesn't trust the government.
We have it good here in Canada. In fact, when I read the thread about a possible election up here, I often laugh at the comments because our problems seem like nothing compared to the problems the US has.
For me, there would be two reasons not to support Obamacare. And I don't give a crap if its supposedly better than anything else. Its only better because the people don't demand more.
Reason 1 - It is run by the Federal Government, and not by each State.
Reason 2 - Last time the government implemented a health care program(Medicare)...it ended up costing 100x more than they originally estimated. So Obama can take his hogwash about being able to finance the thing without adding more debt and shove it up you know where. There is NO government in the whole world that can make a project like this work and not have it cost more than it was supposed too.
And before you jump on me for not having any compassion, I have said before that with certain reform the US could solve a lot of their health care problems. But nobody seems to give a crap, and especially not Obama. I suppose its more fun to just add another layer of red tape onto the 10 layers that already exist and call it a 'plan.'
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I wish I had the statistics that state what percentage of my health care costs go to indigents, illegal immigrants etc. who go to the hospital and are not refused care even though they will never pay. Then I have other people tell me that they were refused major surgery or emergency room care because they could not pay in advance. I don't know why it's so tough to find out the truth about that. The discussions get so heated and yes there is so much irrationality about the subject. I think some hospitals are required to take in a certain number of indigents but I'm not sure.
The biggest difference between Canadians and Americans, and it has nothing to do with compassion, is that Americans as a whole do not believe that government is really all that efficient when it comes to running/managing anything. They mistrust public administration (And quite rightfully so). So they're a little weary of handing their lives over to a government bureaucracy.
In Americans' defense, their government isn't very efficient. Ours might not exactly be a well-oiled machine, but they wrote the book on government inefficiency.
Yet they seem willing to trust thier lives with insurance "death panels" who get to decide who lives and dies based on the bottom line.
Well, that's just the thing; it may be the case that the government is inefficient--but the current multi-headed hydra that they have is twice as inefficient as any government-run system, and lacks any ounce of the "compassion" that North East Goon was talking about.
Personally, i think the jury's out on whether health care can work as a for-profit enterprise, but that's just me.
Forgive me for starting a new topic on this, I am sure it has been disscused and dissected ad lib. My question is what are these people not getting about this? This is not a political issue, This is not a finacial issue, this is not a pork barrel issue? This is a compassion issue amongst brother to brother, man to man! If you have a cold enough heart to let your low income - to medium income people suffer without care - I believe it's time for those groups to rise against! If your government has to pay for Joe Smith's healthcare and Warren Buffet's healthcare - so be it, as long as it is fair amongst everyone. Equality for all, is the words I am looking for! Welcome to 5 years ago NE Goon, but maybe the Americans can enlighten me why this is happening?
Canada has a small population and a huge amount of resources. It can afford the healthcare it provides, and even then it's not without some serious issues. Take away the resources, double the population and then tell me how long can Canada sustain this free for all dream...
Why is it that alot of Conservatives trust private corporations to do what's best? You can't trust them anymore than government. In fact, they use government as a way to manipulate common sense regulations which protect consumers. The health care insurance industry in America
is so crooked that they kick an average of 17,000 people off their plans a day. In what other business could a company take someone's money and then deny the service?
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Why is it that alot of Conservatives trust private corporations to do what's best? You can't trust them anymore than government. In fact, they use government as a way to manipulate common sense regulations which protect consumers. The health care insurance industry in America
is so crooked that they kick an average of 17,000 people off their plans a day. In what other business could a company take someone's money and then deny the service?
And who wrote and passed the legislation that allows them to do that?
Honestly, how many people in the US are qualified to and know how to write a health care bill that significantly reforms (and improves) the health care? 10? 20? 50?
Whatever the number, I bet it is pretty small. What are the chances ONE of these people can and will keep their distance from the health care lobbyists and write the bill without someone else leading his hand? Pretty damn near zero I am afraid.
Believing that Obama can somehow cut the ties with health care industry is unbelieveably naive. He caved in when the tire industry came knocking for gods sake, and the tire lobby is nonexistent compared to health care interest groups.
Health care industry and the US government on all levels go hand in hand. And to think that Obama will be willing and able to destroy this cozy relationship where everybody wins except for the patients and taxpayers, is, well... did I already say naive?
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The biggest difference between Canadians and Americans, and it has nothing to do with compassion, is that Americans as a whole do not believe that government is really all that efficient when it comes to running/managing anything. They mistrust public administration (And quite rightfully so). So they're a little weary of handing their lives over to a government bureaucracy.
Considering what I saw working for an HMO, I have a very hard time believing that anything could be any less efficient. But I didn't mind the company picking up the tab for lunch when we went out as a group, or paying for us to play Starcraft (we called it "standby in case of an emergency") or giving out huge bonuses to people who sat on their asses talking about football all day. I currently work for the Canadian government and while I might not get fired for that type of behaviour, I would get raked over the coals. But the HMO didn't seem to mind. Main reason I left working for them: I would go home at night feeling that I didn't accomplish anything useful during the day.
Healthcare in the United States...
