I hate smokers throwing butts on the ground

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Yes, you are right. The "anti-smoking crowd" doesn't actually have anything to complain about, so we were looking for something, and got together decided to pick on smokers for no reason.




It has nothing to do with:

• Our tax dollars supporting your health

Well, I'm not going to argue with most of your points.

Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.
"It looks unpleasant or ghoulish to look at the cost savings as well as the cost increases and it's not a good thing that smoking kills people," Viscusi said in an interview. "But if you're going to follow this health-cost train all the way, you have to take into account all the effects, not just the ones you like in terms of getting your bill passed."
Viscusi worked as a litigation expert for the tobacco industry in lawsuits by states but said that his research, which has been published in peer-reviewed journals, has never been funded by industry.

Other researchers have reached similar conclusions.
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.
The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.

Willard Manning, a professor of health economics and policy at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy Studies, was lead author on a paper published two decades ago in the Journal of the American Medical Association that found that, taking into account tobacco taxes in effect at the time, smokers were not a financial burden to society.
"We were actually quite surprised by the finding because we were pretty sure that smokers were getting cross-subsidized by everybody else," said Manning, who suspects the findings would be similar today. "But it was only when we put all the pieces together that we found it was pretty much a wash."
Such conclusions are controversial since they assign an economic benefit to premature death. U.S. government agencies shy away from the calculations.

The goal of the U.S. health care system is "prolonging disability-free life," states the 2004 Surgeon General's report on the health consequences of smoking. "Thus any negative economic impacts from gains in longevity with smoking reduction should not be emphasized in public health decisions."
Dr. Terry Pechacek, the CDC associate director for science in the office on smoking and health, said that data seeking to quantify economic benefits of smoking couldn't capture all the benefits associated with longevity, like a grandparent's contribution to a family. Because of such uncertainties the CDC won't put a price tag on savings from smoking.
"The natural train of logic that follows from that is that then anybody that's admitted around age 65 or older that's showing any signs of sickness should be denied treatment," Pechacek said. "That's the cheapest thing to do."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...co-costs_N.htm

[burn_baby_burn]

I have never smoked and I have never complained about people smoking. Although I have to say that banning smoking in bars is pretty sweet. You take how nice it is for granted until you travel to Europe or Wyoming and get exposed to the smoke in a restaurant or bar.

I do have a big problem with cigarette butts. The thing that really bothers me is when I find a cigarette butt on my lawn. Its really hard for me not to take it personally. All these thoughts run through my head about who it was, what did I do to them, somebody must really hate me. I just can't understand why somebody would be so inconsiderate.

[Bobblehead]

3 of my grandparents smoked. None of them lived past their mid sixties.
On my mother's side, she was the 9th of 9 children. Children 8 & 9 (my mother) smoked. My mother finally quit in her mid 50s when she had a heart valve replacement. Her sister who smoked passed away from a heart attack in her early 60s. All the older children who didn't smoke have lived into their 70s and 80s (one of my uncles passed away last summer in his mid 70s, the rest are still hale and healthy). Of the spouses, 3 of them were smokers. One passed away of lung cancer (a horrible, horrible way to go), one has suffered at least a half dozen minor strokes, and one is still alive and well onto his golden years.

So it is only anecdotal but even in my own family I have seen the consequences of smoking.

And I'm not sure smoking really is a choice. Sure, when you first start it is a choice. But once you are addicted I think your ability to choose to smoke is taken away, or at best severely limited. I have known a few people who are able to seem to stop at will or never be addicted. But for every one of them I know a handful more who have tried to quit and haven't been able to quit. That addiction is insidious.

And can you imagine today if someone were to introduce a product that creates major health issues, has little or no benefits, and is this addictive?

[Circa89]

Originally Posted by Tiger

If I was a cop this would be my war, I would give tickets every day for that. It is the only thing that makes me really angry constantly.

If this is your biggest concern in life, you live an extremely privileged life. Count your blessings and think of how fortunate you are.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Tiger

If I write a novel sure go ahead and rip it apart, but judging someone on forum is idiotic.

Remember, I will write the book that you dictate. 'Cause I can write 'n s***.

You're posting from work, so you're probably using IE, because that's what employers do for some reason. But spelling on the internet is getting easier and easier. Most browsers have spell checking now.

That being said.. people who attempt to invalidate an argument because it doesn't sound like a Nobel laureate wrote it are ######-bags. Argue points on the validity of the arguments not the way it's written, except in cases where the grammatical mistakes create a situation where the point is misconstrued because of the errors.

[Cactus Jack]

I can't stand any act of littering, it is so stupid. I imagine litters wouldn't want to throw these things in their homes or cars, so why do you leave it front of my house or in the parks and streets where I walk daily? I get so mad when I see people litter, I just want to pick up mounds of garbage and leave them in the litter's house and see how they like it. It gets ridiculous when you see some idiot leave pizza boxes or beer bottles on the street. Hang on to them for a minute and look for a garbage can, idiot.

I was in the famous Queens Bohemian Outdoor Beer Garden (nice garden, horrid beer selection) this weekend and was shocked that people were smoking in the patio. I realize letting people smoke in patios probably makes sense but I am so happy in Calgary that it is banned too.

Originally Posted by flip

In some cases peoples attitudes are no different than people egging on a person with severe road rage. Sure I hate bad driving but I don't scream at and belittle every bad driver I see. I just deal with it and move on.

The day bad driving is hazardous to your health, smells, pollutes, can cause environmental damage and adds up to piles of rubbish in front of your house, I would consider road rage an idiotic act, not an inconsiderate one. There is a difference.

Originally Posted by flip

Not saying it is all of CP that has this attitude but the high horse and holier than thou comments seem to be front and center when smoking comes up.

For the rest of you who are polite about not wanting smoke near you and litter, I'm sorry but until the aholes quit pissing me off I'm not going to change.

So you say anti-smokers are holier than thou? You seem pretty holier than thou with your attitude. I appreciate your comments but I will continue to do what I want anyways to spite a select group of people - that is pretty much the attitude you are taking. I bet you start a lot of phrases with "Ok, I'm not a racist, but..."

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

The day bad driving is hazardous to your health, smells, pollutes, can cause environmental damage and adds up to piles of rubbish in front of your house, I would consider road rage an idiotic act, not an inconsiderate one. There is a difference.

The bold part applies to all driving, and bad driving is very hazardous to your health.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

The day bad driving is hazardous to your health, smells, pollutes, can cause environmental damage and adds up to piles of rubbish in front of your house, I would consider road rage an idiotic act, not an inconsiderate one. There is a difference.

A bad driver can kill you instantly. An inconsiderate smoker would take several years to do so.

Although, one year at christmas we were sitting in our living room when we noticed huge flames coming from our backyard. We ran to the back door to find our shed engulfed in flames, luckily the fire department was called by our neighbour and were already there or it could have easily spread to the house. Later on we found out the blaze was started by a smoker flicking his butt into the dry grass by our shed. I mean at least stomp the damn thing out if you're going to litter it.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

3 of my grandparents smoked. None of them lived past their mid sixties.
On my mother's side, she was the 9th of 9 children. Children 8 & 9 (my mother) smoked. My mother finally quit in her mid 50s when she had a heart valve replacement. Her sister who smoked passed away from a heart attack in her early 60s. All the older children who didn't smoke have lived into their 70s and 80s (one of my uncles passed away last summer in his mid 70s, the rest are still hale and healthy). Of the spouses, 3 of them were smokers. One passed away of lung cancer (a horrible, horrible way to go), one has suffered at least a half dozen minor strokes, and one is still alive and well onto his golden years.

So it is only anecdotal but even in my own family I have seen the consequences of smoking.

And I'm not sure smoking really is a choice. Sure, when you first start it is a choice. But once you are addicted I think your ability to choose to smoke is taken away, or at best severely limited. I have known a few people who are able to seem to stop at will or never be addicted. But for every one of them I know a handful more who have tried to quit and haven't been able to quit. That addiction is insidious.

And can you imagine today if someone were to introduce a product that creates major health issues, has little or no benefits, and is this addictive?

I wasted years of my life smoking. Tried to quit more times than I can count. Finally got it right over 7 years ago. The kicker for me? A visit with a friend's father who had ternminal lung cancer. And I still want the damn things. It's a battle that will never end for me. Very happy that I have it under control.

My poor uncle is 70, he's given up trying to quit. He's been smoking for more than 50 years. His older sister died at 59, covered in cancerous tumours (no idea why that image didn't make me quit). Nicotine is an evil thing.

I was definitely guilty of throwing butts pretty much anywhere, I'm ashamed. Didn't really think of it at the time.

[Hack&Lube]

You forgot the part where you won the hearts of several beautiful office women with your brazen display of righteousnous.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by flip

Wow. Sorry guys I had no idea all smokers were like that.

But if I go down the list item by item your theory gets debunked pretty quick.

Hey Flip, not sure why you claim my post was about all smokers, or that I had any sort of "theory". I was talking about you, and I didn't offer any theories.

I'll assume you were talking about the other post you quoted. Anyway, on to the meat of the matter...

-My health - No one's business but my own. Keep your paternalism to yourself I like freedom of choice thank you very much

You're addicted to an narcotic. Your decision making is so seriously flawed that your opinion doesn't really count as regards your own health. You are no more making a choice than the average crackhead.

- Your health - I guarantee you that my smoking has ZERO effect on your health - Even if you have to walk through one of my death clouds once a month

Thanks. You just proved my point about how your decision making is so badly flawed as to discount any opinion about smoking you might have.

And to be clear - I don't blame you Flip. I blame the nicotine you are being controlled by. I hope you kick it someday.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by EDBTZ12

Do you seriously need me to explain this?

I will anyways.

Imagine you have your three year old kid with you in your Ford Tempo and you pull out a cigarette. I'm no scientist but I'm pretty sure your kid isn't gonna tell you to put out your cigarette or leave the car.

Adults have the CHOICE to be in a smoking environment thanks to new laws. Kids do not. (although I'm pretty sure there is a new law banning smoking with kids in the car?) But i see it everyday anyways.

I'm shocked you needed someone to tell you this.

That just comes off sounding like a "WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!1" argument.

As a non-smoker, I despise being around people who are smoking. And no, it isn't always possible to avoid them (e.g. the only entrance to my office always has a bunch of smokers around it). Smoking around children isn't worse than smoking around adults -- both are offensive.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

You're addicted to an narcotic. Your decision making is so seriously flawed that your opinion doesn't really count as regards your own health. You are no more making a choice than the average crackhead.



Thanks. You just proved my point about how your decision making is so badly flawed as to discount any opinion about smoking you might have.

And to be clear - I don't blame you Flip. I blame the nicotine you are being controlled by. I hope you kick it someday.

Good point, people are too dumb to be in control of their own health. Being such I've decided you should be put on a vegetarian diet with no salt, no beer no fast food ever and nothing else unhealthy for you. If you dont like it tough, its for your own good, you'll live longer.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Damnit I hate people who throw their butts out of the car window. I think I've told this story before, but it's forever etched in my brain. One time I was driving a friend home when a cigarette butt landed on my windshield. The thing was still lit, so it blew smoke into my car, leaving a cigarette stench in my car for hours. Damnit you have an ashtray in your car people, use it!!!

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Damnit I hate people who throw their butts out of the car window. I think I've told this story before, but it's forever etched in my brain. One time I was driving a friend home when a cigarette butt landed on my windshield. The thing was still lit, so it blew smoke into my car, leaving a cigarette stench in my car for hours. Damnit you have an ashtray in your car people, use it!!!

most new cars do not.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

yes i lose respect for them by virtue of their smoking ... it makes smart people look stupid.

I feel the same way. Right or wrong, when I see a person smoking, I think less of them. I think they are incredibly stupid for smoking. And it makes them look like a total jackass.

I find it hard to respect someone that smokes, because what comes to mind is someone that knows damn well what they are doing it expensive, often deadly, has absolutely no benefit to them expect to temporarily quench an addiction, makes them smell like crap, ages them prematurely, makes them useless at sports when they get older, and often makes them hack and cough constantly. And that's just for STARTERS.

Smoking is literally one of the most asinine, pointless, dangerous, worthless addictions on the planet. People that smoke need to stop the excuses, and drop the self righteous "leave me alone it's my life" garbage and grow some balls and quit. It takes a real person with tremendous character to quit smoking. It takes a spineless whining fool with a million excuses to continue to do it day in and day out, all the while making incomprehensible justifications for doing it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by zamler

I feel the same way. Right or wrong, when I see a person smoking, I think less of them. I think they are incredibly stupid for smoking. And it makes them look like a total jackass.

I find it hard to respect someone that smokes, because what comes to mind is someone that knows damn well what they are doing it expensive, often deadly, has absolutely no benefit to them expect to temporarily quench an addiction, makes them smell like crap, ages them prematurely, makes them useless at sports when they get older, and often makes them hack and cough constantly. And that's just for STARTERS.

Smoking is literally one of the most asinine, pointless, dangerous, worthless addictions on the planet. People that smoke need to stop the excuses, and drop the self righteous "leave me alone it's my life" garbage and grow some balls and quit. It takes a real person with tremendous character to quit smoking. It takes a spineless whining fool with a million excuses to continue to do it day in and day out, all the while making incomprehensible justifications for doing it.

When someone is irrationally judgmental and has to resort to making up lies it makes me think less of them. I think they are incredibly stupid for doing this and it makes them look like a total jackass.

Stop whining and mind your own business. You come across as extremely annoying. Does the fact I'm annoyed by you now give me the right to correct your behaviour because I define it as "asinine, pointless, dangerous, and worthless" to me?

We live in a society of lots of people. That guy smoking outside does not affect your health in any way. Every day Calgary has 100,000s of cars operating burning litres of gasoline. Does someone burning part of a tobacco leaf really affect your air quality? No, you just find it annoying and your looking for any reason to prove your better than other people.

The truth is you do not have the right to prevent people from smoking. All your doing is exaggerating stats and making up facts in order to force your will upon others.

Seriously, mind your own business.

[zamler]

Beyond lame.

Originally Posted by blankall

When someone is irrationally judgmental and has to resort to making up lies it makes me think less of them. I think they are incredibly stupid for doing this and it makes them look like a total jackass.

Stop whining and mind your own business. You come across as extremely annoying. Does the fact I'm annoyed by you now give me the right to correct your behaviour because I define it as "asinine, pointless, dangerous, and worthless" to me?

We live in a society of lots of people. That guy smoking outside does not affect your health in any way. Every day Calgary has 100,000s of cars operating burning litres of gasoline. Does someone burning part of a tobacco leaf really affect your air quality? No, you just find it annoying and your looking for any reason to prove your better than other people.

The truth is you do not have the right to prevent people from smoking. All your doing is exaggerating stats and making up facts in order to force your will upon others.

Seriously, mind your own business.

[DOK]

Originally Posted by blankall

that guy smoking outside does not affect your health in any way. Does someone burning part of a tobacco leaf really affect your air quality? All your doing is exaggerating stats and making up facts in order to force your will upon others.

wow.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by blankall

The truth is you do not have the right to prevent people from smoking.

Society isn't done with ostricising smokers. Deal with that.