new LIFE photos of Nazi Germany

[FlamesAddiction]

I have relatives who fought for the Axis as well. But when your only choice is the communists and the fascists... well, there isn't much of a choice. When Chetniks are pillaging your towns, you're naturally going to gravitate to the side that offers you a chance to fight back.

[Hemi-Cuda]

it's weird, the Nazi's have become the symbol of evil from WW2, yet Russia and Japan committed mass genocide on a scale even greater than the Holocaust. Japanese mass killings of Chinese civilians was in the 10 million+ range, yet that doesn't get nearly the historical coverage that the Holocaust does.

Hitler, his senior staff, and the SS were the only true evils in the German military, the rest were just normal people. the Germans followed the Geneva conventions, while Stalin had millions of German POW's executed. even now you have the United States admitting to state sponsored torture of prisoners, and atrocities being performed by the Taliban and al Qaeda that are even more vicious than the Nazi killings, just on a smaller scale

people like to imagine Nazi Germany as a truly evil empire, they don't like to see the truth that the people in that empire weren't that different from people today, and that they would likely also follow along if put in their shoes

[Thor]

Hemi, its all about who writes the story, and the victors paint typically one empire as the evil one, while ignoring others.

Its why all historical info is slanted heavily for the victors and a particular point of view.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Thor

Hemi, its all about who writes the story, and the victors paint typically one empire as the evil one, while ignoring others.

Its why all historical info is slanted heavily for the victors and a particular point of view.

i know that it's the victors who write the history books, but i just don't get why the Jews have garnered so much sympathy for the events of WWII, yet the Chinese and Eastern Europeans have been mostly forgotten. i guess it's ok to mass kill Communists

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Thor

Hemi, its all about who writes the story, and the victors paint typically one empire as the evil one, while ignoring others.

Its why all historical info is slanted heavily for the victors and a particular point of view.

I agree with that but only to a point. It seems fairly clear from what my teachers told me that the Allies are taking responsibility for forcing Germany into the Treaty of Versailles... Great Britain also realizes it should have done something to stop Hitler before he got out of control, and the US agrees they probably could have stepped in earlier.

So while it's true that the victors wrote that history, they didn't forget to learn lessons from it.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I agree with that but only to a point. It seems fairly clear from what my teachers told me that the Allies are taking responsibility for forcing Germany into the Treaty of Versailles... Great Britain also realizes it should have done something to stop Hitler before he got out of control, and the US agrees they probably could have stepped in earlier.

So while it's true that the victors wrote that history, they didn't forget to learn lessons from it.

it was unfortunately perfect timing for Hitler. no one wanted to fight another global war after WWI, so the Nazi's were pretty much able to have a free ride for the first few years. and if the two superpowers (US and Russia) weren't goaded into fighting the outcome would have been drastically different

[keratosis]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I agree with that but only to a point. It seems fairly clear from what my teachers told me that the Allies are taking responsibility for forcing Germany into the Treaty of Versailles... Great Britain also realizes it should have done something to stop Hitler before he got out of control, and the US agrees they probably could have stepped in earlier.

So while it's true that the victors wrote that history, they didn't forget to learn lessons from it.

You know what? I sat back and watched this thread for a while
and kept quiet and deleted reply's more than once.
But , you know what?
Granpa isn't here anymore and dad?
Didn't know him.
Mom's a slut.
And my siblings are ######s.
But then again I'm Jewish so what do I know.
Sorry, that victors write the history bit pissed me off.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I agree with that but only to a point. It seems fairly clear from what my teachers told me that the Allies are taking responsibility for forcing Germany into the Treaty of Versailles... Great Britain also realizes it should have done something to stop Hitler before he got out of control, and the US agrees they probably could have stepped in earlier.

So while it's true that the victors wrote that history, they didn't forget to learn lessons from it.

I would disagree, we ignore repeatedly the lessons from the last 100yrs.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i know that it's the victors who write the history books, but i just don't get why the Jews have garnered so much sympathy for the events of WWII, yet the Chinese and Eastern Europeans have been mostly forgotten. i guess it's ok to mass kill Communists

I think part of the reason is that the Jewish population was relatively small compared to the Chinese population. Even though more Chinese were killed through ethnic cleansing during WWII, their culture didn't become endangered like that of European Jews.

More North American aboriginals were killed during the colonization of N.America as well, but that hardly gets a mention either.

Stalin, who was an "ally" during WWII, killed at least 30 million Ukrainians, dissident Russians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romas, Slovaks, and various other minorities in the Soviet Union...

[Royal Eagle]

Don't forget the nearly genocide(both physical and cultural) of Native Aboriginals in Australia either.

The methods of forced cultural assimilation employed by Australian churches and the department of state education until the early 1970s were brutal, despite their apparent discretion.

[Zevo]

This thread started out great with the pics(they are interesting), but has since turned into all kinds of fail with comments like "I just don't get how the Jews have garnered so much sympathy."

[Royal Eagle]

I don't think Hemi-Cuda was anti-semitic at all, he just reminded us that wars generally affects people, regardless of race or creed. We're all human beings after all.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Royal Eagle

I don't think Hemi-Cuda was trying to be anti-semitic at all, he just said that wars generally affects people without discrimination, regardless of race or creed.

No, i don't think it was anti-semetic either but it was a poor choice of words. But this is off topic and lets leave it at that as I don't want to derail this thread as the photos are pretty cool and thats what we should be discussing.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i know that it's the victors who write the history books, but i just don't get why the Jews have garnered so much sympathy for the events of WWII, yet the Chinese and Eastern Europeans have been mostly forgotten. i guess it's ok to mass kill Communists

I was wondering who would make the first post like this. Somehow blame the Jews...this time for somehow shutting down sympathy for other problems around the world. Should the Jews not concentrate on something that happened to them? Perhaps the holocaust is more well known in your house, and you can sit there and sulk about that, but in some other house perhaps what the Japanese did is very close to them.

And your claims that somehow only a few people in the Nazi movement were evil is pretty lame. The German population in general was pretty damn bad and they would quickly round up a Jew if they spotted one. There are some stories where people helped, but in general the nation is DAMN ASHAMED for what they did - not what 'a few people did'.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Zevo

No, i don't think it was anti-semetic either but it was a poor choice of words. But this is off topic and lets leave it at that as I don't want to derail this thread as the photos are pretty cool and thats what we should be discussing.

It's only a poor choice of words when you go with the old 'quote half a sentence' technique, as you chose to do. Quote the whole sentence and it reads completely differently, convenient choice you made though.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

i know that it's the victors who write the history books, but i just don't get why the Jews have garnered so much sympathy for the events of WWII, yet the Chinese and Eastern Europeans have been mostly forgotten. i guess it's ok to mass kill Communists

It's simply because the Jewish people had/have a strong voice in the American media, which gives them a worldwide platform.

Every victim of genocide is equally worthy of sympathy, but you barely hear about the Armenian genocide, or countless others simply because they don't have anyone in the right positions to have their voices heard.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I was wondering who would make the first post like this. Somehow blame the Jews...this time for somehow shutting down sympathy for other problems around the world. Should the Jews not concentrate on something that happened to them? Perhaps the holocaust is more well known in your house, and you can sit there and sulk about that, but in some other house perhaps what the Japanese did is very close to them.

And your claims that somehow only a few people in the Nazi movement were evil is pretty lame. The German population in general was pretty damn bad and they would quickly round up a Jew if they spotted one. There are some stories where people helped, but in general the nation is DAMN ASHAMED for what they did - not what 'a few people did'.

Wow, I dont think anyone is blaming the Jews.

Just saying that similar and worse atrocities have been committed all throughout history, with some of those happening AFTER the horrors from WW2 have been well known to everyone.

History has not condemmed those people in the same way that they have condemmed Hitler and the Nazis.

Nage, a nation was at war, but the whole nation did not know the atocities that were being committed until afterwards, much like everyone else.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I was wondering who would make the first post like this. Somehow blame the Jews...this time for somehow shutting down sympathy for other problems around the world. Should the Jews not concentrate on something that happened to them? Perhaps the holocaust is more well known in your house, and you can sit there and sulk about that, but in some other house perhaps what the Japanese did is very close to them.

Where does he blame the Jews? I am pretty sure that he isn't saying the Jews don't deserve the sympathy they are getting. His point is that the others deserve just as much sympathy. And your point about maybe in his house is stupid. In the West, the Chinese tragedy hardly gets covered in history books. I am sure that in China it is well presented, but it is grossly underpresented here in the West. That was his point. There are tons of holocaust museums in the US and England, and they deserve to be there, however I don't think there are any museums to the genocide of the Chinese people in either country. Way to twist people's words to make them look like a jackass...

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by valo403

It's only a poor choice of words when you go with the old 'quote half a sentence' technique, as you chose to do. Quote the whole sentence and it reads completely differently, convenient choice you made though.

Please explain.

[carom]

Hemi-Cuda is definitely not anti-Semitic, he likes Michael Landsberg.