08-28-2009, 03:19 PM
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#41
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NE Calgary
Exp:  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temporary_User
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Thank you very much for sharing that. I peed myself laughing at that inspiring story!!
Cheers!!
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08-28-2009, 03:21 PM
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#42
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
If you've ever known anybody who suddenly became a fervent believer in a religion you absolutely oppose or even some quasi-pseudo belief, it can be very difficult to talk to those people. Challenging people's core beliefs, especially for people of this ilk is extremely difficult and there is no way to find common ground.
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Actually, one easy and effective way is to argue them out of their core beliefs on the interwebs.
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zk
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08-28-2009, 03:33 PM
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#43
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Referee
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Over the hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluking
Actually, one easy and effective way is to argue them out of their core beliefs on the interwebs.
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There's a poster who has this quote (I don't remember where it's from) as their sig:
"I cannot reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
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08-28-2009, 03:36 PM
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#44
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Sierra, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Are there any sharp objects in the room, or objects that would allow you to Macgyver a small explosive device or firearm?
Cause I'd choose death personally.
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No sneaky tricks like that or temporarily removing your own eyeballs/eardrums either. This is one of those questions that reveals true genius. Just envision that you know the answer, say that you know the answer, and it will be (have you not read The Secret man?). The key is in the voice, not obnoxious visual/conceptual content alone. No human should ever be caused to listen to Dr. Phil talk. In the event my television should come to rest on a channel he's being featured on, I just yell as loud as I can continuously until the channel is able to be changed or the tv has been thrown out the window, whatever comes first.
But.......Oprah is the one who unleashed Dr. Phil on the world! Therefore, she is the origin of it all, and the evil mastermind behind her mind-control book club. Risking an hour of her show would put you in jeopardy of becoming an Oprah Zombie, and such is the reason why Dr. Phil must be the choice.
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08-28-2009, 03:40 PM
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#45
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: still in edmonton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old-fart
My guess is the "book" the original author stumbled upon before writing this book was "Dianetics". The other books she checked to confirm were all either by, or about Hubbard and the great scam of Scientology.
The Secret really is "Gullible people will give you money for nothing but self help mumbo-jumbo, and are easy to manipulate into giving you even more money. Getting a celebrity on board is even better. Writing books is ok, but if you want real money - start a religion."
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Wow, you must have a really high thetan level or something.
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08-28-2009, 03:44 PM
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#46
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Crowsnest Pass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EN FUEGO
No sneaky tricks like that or temporarily removing your own eyeballs/eardrums either. This is one of those questions that reveals true genius. Just envision that you know the answer, say that you know the answer, and it will be (have you not read The Secret man?). The key is in the voice, not obnoxious visual/conceptual content alone. No human should ever be caused to listen to Dr. Phil talk. In the event my television should come to rest on a channel he's being featured on, I just yell as loud as I can continuously until the channel is able to be changed or the tv has been thrown out the window, whatever comes first.
But.......Oprah is the one who unleashed Dr. Phil on the world! Therefore, she is the origin of it all, and the evil mastermind behind her mind-control book club. Risking an hour of her show would put you in jeopardy of becoming an Oprah Zombie, and such is the reason why Dr. Phil must be the choice.
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Oprah is so powerful, and so irresponsible. I hear she is developing a new show for Jenny McCarthy to spread her anti-vac nonsense.
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08-28-2009, 03:57 PM
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#47
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Norm!
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I lost my job once . . . well I didn't really lose it, its just that someone else is there doing it.
Lost a girlfriend once . . . well I didn't really lose her its just that someone else is f$$$$$$ her.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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08-28-2009, 04:06 PM
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#48
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God of Hating Twitter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperfan
So, to sum the thread up: Your friend was a druggie loser, you thought he was cool. He then realized he was a druggie loser and cleaned his life up and now you and the rest of your friends wont talk to him anymore. Nice. I guess that is just what it takes to stay cool these days.
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Actually he's stilll a friend, but like I said its tough to be around him, his closest friends and even some family all say the same thing, its just frustrating because all he does is constantly talk about the same thing.
By the way he was never a druggie 'loser' he had some problems and turned a few bad habbits into good ones.
The problem now with him is he's become extreme in another part of his life, which sometimes happens after people drop a destructive habbit for something else, like happens to many after AA with religion.
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Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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08-28-2009, 04:13 PM
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#49
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3
We had to watch this stupid movie in CALM class in grade 11. The teacher yelled at me because I fell asleep 4 times. What a piece of garbage.
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me too. Really confirmed my belief that the school establishment was ######ed.
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08-28-2009, 04:52 PM
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#50
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The new goggles also do nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickstruth
There are a lot of people who advocate for LoA/The Secret/etc. -- including many of those who popularized the current incarnation -- who maintain that it's not enough to just 'put the intention out there'. If you intend to have a great job, but don't ever go out an meet people, your intention doesn't match your action, and therefore, no dice.
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So they alter the made-up beliefs to better fit observed reality? Mysticism is so cute when it adheres to scientific principles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickstruth
In addition, many of the 'core teachers' (for lack of a better name) believe that reality is, in fact, subjective. So the little girl didn't create her circumstances -- you did. In fact, the little girl doesn't really exist, outside of your belief that she exists. This belief system is typically founded on the idea that there is a universal consciousness that is creative, and that what we perceive as real is only a projection of that consciousness. (The Conversations with God books are an example of this type of thinking, as is Steve Pavlina's Subjective Reality material). It's the same kind of idea as that which comes from asking 'how do you know you're actually awake, and not just in a very vivid dream?'
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Well that just sounds like a version of solipsism, which to me is a empty position; there's no point discussing anything with such a one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickstruth
You can, of course, combine these (and many more possibilities) to come up with the many, many permutations of LoA/power of intention/The Secret/Intention-Manifestation models.
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It's easy to make stuff up... finding out what actually works in reality is harder (assuming reality exists, which we might as well do).
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickstruth
The difficulty is that many people don't go that far into creating a holistic belief system around this stuff. They simply stop at the intention side of things, sit around all day putting out 'positive thoughts', and never work to create a positive life for themselves -- exactly the opposite of what most of the teachers they respect would advocate.
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Work towards your goals is good advice; buy my book and follow the mystical path of working towards your goals is good advice wrapped in a sales pitch which makes the mystic money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale
Children should not be expected to understand the laws of attraction.
Also, if you stretch anything far enough it will have holes.
Personally, I'll take "the law of attraction" over any organized religion.
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So replace the 8 year old with someone older.. Starving children probably have starving parents. To say that everyone who has terrible things happen to them deserves it is evil, primitive thinking.
And why should it have holes? A statement about how reality works means that it should work; if it has holes then it's not an accurate statement about reality and should be discarded.
Why take either? Magical thinking is magical thinking no matter what label you give it.
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Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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08-28-2009, 05:43 PM
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#51
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Such a pretty girl!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja
I wonder how many people have gotten involved in dubious get rich schemes or made dubious life choices as a result of The Secret.
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Anyone who bought the dvd or book?
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08-28-2009, 06:18 PM
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#52
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Chick Magnet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
So me and my best friend sat around tonight talking about our friend who used to be cool as can be. He sobered up (mostly) and found not religion, but the power of attraction.
He's now gone to the extreme of the secret, power of intention, yoga, spirtuality, new wave, etc..
So much that he's at this point lost most of his friends, no one can even handle a phone conversation with him.
Its akin to those we know who went through AA become supremely religious.
I guess its somehow better he's not messing with hardcore drugs, but then again, I can't even be in a room with him now.
Damn you Oprah!!!!
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Just tell him you're going to practice the system taught in the book and ask the universe to give him herpes. Think about it, dream about it, plan it.
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08-28-2009, 07:27 PM
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#53
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3
We had to watch this stupid movie in CALM class in grade 11. The teacher yelled at me because I fell asleep 4 times. What a piece of garbage.
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Was this in a public school?
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08-28-2009, 07:40 PM
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#54
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: At the Gates of Hell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackArcher101
Anyone who bought the dvd or book?
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I found it at Goodwill for a buck. I can appreciate the idea of positive thinking, and the idea of having hope and engaging in some unconventional outside the box thinking. But taken to the extreme the ideas in this book can be dangerous. But the same can be said for extremes of a million other things.
There's a difference between being critical and being negative. I can understand perhaps separating yourself from people who try to drag you down into their own misery,or people who telll you you're a useless idiot. But a friend who warns you against a business deal etc. that's based merely on magical/positive thinking is a friend you definitely shouldn't ditch. Jeez. I hadn't realized that so many people lost friends to this thing.
This, along with a string of somewhat oddball coincidences that seemed otherwordly at the time inspired me to get on with some things I've been wanting to do. But those coincidences were merely a result of me getting out to meet people who are actually accomplishing things, as opposed to sitting around listening to a bunch of postal workers moan and groan and insult eachother. I made my own opportunities. If that's what I got out of "The Secret", fine. But it's not a "secret", I was just a bit depressed and stuck for awhile. Maybe the fact that the book did help a bit doesn't say much for my state of mind back then
Last edited by missdpuck; 08-28-2009 at 09:38 PM.
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08-28-2009, 07:48 PM
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#55
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Such a pretty girl!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary
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When The Secret first came out and was all the rage, I lost some good up and coming friends to it's sayings. Apparently I was sometimes negative, so they stopped conversing with me (oh no! sometimes I thought critically!). Then daily the facebook status updates would change to something like "Thinking positive today and maybe tomorrow someone will finally accept our offer on a house". It made me puke and still does to this day. Now when I read their facebooks, it's something like "Husband is gone again, stuck at home with crying baby  " or "Lost my job but that's ok". Some have started talking to me again, but I just ignore them now. They are clearly lost and realized real friendships are important, not ones you lie yourself into believing are better. Frankly, this whole Law of Attractions thing is busted on the simple fact that not everyone in the world wins. There must be a balance. Unless everyone of course lowers their standards to just living.
On that note, I never EVER want to hear anyone say "deserve" regarding something they wish they had. Such an overused word, for example "Going to buy a brand new car, because I deserve it".
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08-28-2009, 08:10 PM
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#56
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperfan
So, to sum the thread up: Your friend was a druggie loser, you thought he was cool. He then realized he was a druggie loser and cleaned his life up and now you and the rest of your friends wont talk to him anymore. Nice. I guess that is just what it takes to stay cool these days.
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I have a buddy who got into this stuff and it was the same kind of deal. He did straighten his unhappy life out by getting a job and even better, receiving a considerable sum of money from a family member who had died. Things got even better after that because if you have some money, you can make more, which he did.
Good for him.
Things went down hill though when he kept putting me in a position to rebuff his attempts to get me into his way of thinking. It's not a lot of fun having to do that -- to listen to someone tell you that your life could be so much better if you just do what they do.
Most people, myself included, don't like being told that we're living our lives all wrong. It's a personal thing, in the same way being told "you are stupid and I am smart, you should be smart like me" can be a bit of a turnoff.
When these lectures (it always actually felt more like a sales pitch) are peppered with foolish and nonsensical phrases like "follow your bliss" and "you are part of the universe", it's even worse".
So, good for him for straightening it out. Maybe positive thinking got him the job. Maybe positive thinking killed his uncle and got him hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or maybe it was negative thinking on the uncle's part. I've never been able to suss that one out.
Anyway, the positive thinking was no match for the recession, and the smile on his face and warm thoughts in his head didn't stop him from buying a lot of real estate at exactly the wrong time, and watching much of that loot disappear, at least temporarily.
He's given up on the "follow your bliss" garbage. I'm not sure if he's still thinking positively, but he's still doing better than before.
I think I'd be justified in saying "man, that Secret stuff sucks, I didn't lose any money and you took a bath, you should be more like me", but that's such a negative thing to do -- to tell somebody they are living their life all wrong.
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08-28-2009, 08:49 PM
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#57
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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It strikes me that a lot of you would enjoy reading the book Happiness by Will Ferguson. Its entertaining for sure. Don't worry, its a novel...not a self help book btw!
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08-28-2009, 09:31 PM
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#59
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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I'd rather be miserable with the truth than happy with a lie. Not that I'm miserable, but once you go down the path of belief, there's no telling where you'll end up.
Changing the way you think because of unsupported or self-reinforcing belief doesn't change who you are at the core, because you are STILL someone who is driven by irrational thoughts that are not your own. The only "Secret" is that there is no "Secret"; and you are better off learning how to think than what to believe.
PS: Oh yah, and IFF - that's my sig, and as far as I know the wording is my own (and if you google it all the hits are calpuck), but I'm sure similar thoughts have been expressed before. I just like the succinct nature of this particular formulation.
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Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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08-29-2009, 01:00 AM
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#60
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
I'd rather be miserable with the truth than happy with a lie. Not that I'm miserable, but once you go down the path of belief, there's no telling where you'll end up.
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What is "the truth"?
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