The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread

[moon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

So yeah, I guess there would be historic lows in TV ratings if there was something akin to a NE/GB final in the NFL, right? That is what you're saying?

They weren't historic lows, but the ratings for the Phillies-Rays series last year sucked.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Hard to say, Halliday might have been pitching lights out in Philly. Maybe all this uncertainty and the Jays not being in the race (again) is affecting him.

Maybe, but even if Halladay is at his best, his numbers wouldn't be any better than Lee's are so far, and the Phillies didn't have to give up as much to land him. Amazing what a team with competent management can accomplish.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I like sports having big guys a little guys though.

If the big guys meet in the final it's good. And if once in awhile a little guy goes up against a big guy in the final that's fun too.

People say baseball is unfair and should be balanced and then when Philly and Tampa play in the World Series, the TV ratings go into the tank.

I think you're missing out on the big picture however - having ALL teams with an even playing field = hope for all fans = more fans in the crowd + more fans watching at home x 30 teams >>>>>>>>> ratings in a World Series that will still get huge ad revenue regardless of who is playing in it.

IMO.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Maybe, but even if Halladay is at his best, his numbers wouldn't be any better than Lee's are so far, and the Phillies didn't have to give up as much to land him. Amazing what a team with competent management can accomplish.

It's the safest bet in the MLB. Move a + player from the AL to the NL and you'll get something special.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Maybe, but even if Halladay is at his best, his numbers wouldn't be any better than Lee's are so far, and the Phillies didn't have to give up as much to land him. Amazing what a team with competent management can accomplish.

Key is how will Lee perform in the playoffs.. As for the sample size of a 5 game window is quite small to make any judgement on any player

As for competent management, personally I doubt JP had anything to do with the Doc trade. I bet the ownership / Beston had full control.

[Sylvanfan]

Lee won the Cy Young last year and had been pitching well for Cleveland since May. He's also 29 years old and is signed for next year at like 10 million dollars.

Rather than pay an exorbatent price for Halladay in terms of players/prospects, the Phillies targeted the number two option who they could acquire without giving up players they really didn't want to move. Even though it's 5 games, it's been a successful move as Lee is proving more than competent in giving the Phillies a high level starting pitcher. It's a good example of a team not falling all over themselves and over paying to get the guy everyone in the media is calling the best guy out there when there was another option who can do the job. Plus going forward, picking a 29 year old left hander over a 32 year old right handed pitcher may turn out to be the better move for future production. I think thats an example of a team who can spend, still doing a good job of managing their team.

There is no guarantee that Halladay would pitch lights out either. Since coming back from that groin injury he's looked rather human. Is it age? Is it a slump, is it the distractions around his future? Who knows. I suspect put in a pennant race in the NL he'd be throwing much better. Right now something isn't quite right with him though.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I think you're missing out on the big picture however - having ALL teams with an even playing field = hope for all fans = more fans in the crowd + more fans watching at home x 30 teams >>>>>>>>> ratings in a World Series that will still get huge ad revenue regardless of who is playing in it.

IMO.

That maybe true but that's fantasy and a perfect world. You're not going to have a league where everyone is .500, salary cap or not. Right now in baseball half the teams still have a chance at playoffs, that's pretty good since only 8 teams make it.

Let's take the three salary cap leagues. Do the Thrashers, Avs, Lions, Raiders, Clippers, and Grizzlies really have a chance? Even in salary cap league you can eiliminate 8-10 teams before the season starts. There no such thing as 30 equal teams.


You need the headliners, you need villians. People may hate the economic system in baseball but the big series and rivalries pull in the ratings. Like a Yankees/Red Sox series in April.

[ShaolinFlame]

Mild entertainment

I know what you're thinking, and yes this is not exactly a compelling argument. I'm like Neville Chamberlain trying to explain why Czechoslovakia would be better off under Nazi leadership.

But there is no better person to teach Arencibia the business of being a major league catcher. He's the Dalai Lama of catching; if the Lama used to have a drinking problem and ate cheesesteaks.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...yourself-short

[SteveToms]

30 Hrs for Aaron Hill!!

Congrats Aaron!

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Let's take the three salary cap leagues. Do the Thrashers, Avs, Lions, Raiders, Clippers, and Grizzlies really have a chance? Even in salary cap league you can eiliminate 8-10 teams before the season starts. There no such thing as 30 equal teams.

That's not really the point. The point is that success is determined by management, not purely by ability to spend a ton of money. Equal in terms of playing field, not result.

The salary cap allows for more cycles from non-playoff team to playoff team than MLB's luxury tax system.

[carom]

i like Aaron Hill

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

That's not really the point. The point is that success is determined by management, not purely by ability to spend a ton of money. Equal in terms of playing field, not result.

The salary cap allows for more cycles from non-playoff team to playoff team than MLB's luxury tax system.

It takes good management to spend big money properly

See Wells contract

[shanegame]

cant believe how bad they are right now i wish doc all the best

[kirant]

Geez. The Jays only won their last game by a massively wild pitch.

[Machiavelli]

They'll take it, lol.

[tigger777]

Finally, a win after a strong performance from the starter!!!!

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It takes good management to spend big money properly

I agree. However, MLB teams with more money (i.e. Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Giants) can absorb a big contract being a complete bust. For example, Carl Pavano with the Yankees.

Mid-market or small market teams either cannot give out those types of contracts or become completely incapacitated if they do (as you stated - Wells).

In a salary cap league, contracts like that are punished and you don't have the rich teams jacking the overall price of all players because everyone has the same amount of money to spend.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

I agree. However, MLB teams with more money (i.e. Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Giants) can absorb a big contract being a complete bust. For example, Carl Pavano with the Yankees.

Mid-market or small market teams either cannot give out those types of contracts or become completely incapacitated if they do (as you stated - Wells).

In a salary cap league, contracts like that are punished and you don't have the rich teams jacking the overall price of all players because everyone has the same amount of money to spend.

With Ryan, Thomas, Wells and Rios it appears that the Jays have had no trouble absorbing big contracts and still spending money.

I am not sure any of those teams mentioned have had more bad contracts than many smaller market teams.

Money helps but it still comes down to making smart player decisions which is what the successful big money and little money teams do and the unsuccessful big and little money teams don't.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by moon

With Ryan, Thomas, Wells and Rios it appears that the Jays have had no trouble absorbing big contracts and still spending money.

I am not sure any of those teams mentioned have had more bad contracts than many smaller market teams.

Money helps but it still comes down to making smart player decisions which is what the successful big money and little money teams do and the unsuccessful big and little money teams don't.

Kei Igawa, Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez, Carl Pavano, Roger Clemen's last contract.

There have been a ton of bad contracts from just the Yankees alone. They still win because they can afford to absorb them.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by moon

Money helps but it still comes down to making smart player decisions which is what the successful big money and little money teams do and the unsuccessful big and little money teams don't.

Is that true though?

This sentiment has been repeated a few times but give me an example.

The one that comes to mind for me is the Twins. Relatively small market that can't afford to keep top free agents (Torii Hunter, Johan Santana) and gets by on wily veterans and solid youngsters plus a few top players on good contracts.

But they are never actually competitive, just closer than organizations that aren't run as well in the same salary bracket.

Playoff competitors are (at least) one of three things:
1) Unsustainably lucky
2) High payroll
3) On the way up of a ten-year rollercoaster ride of terribleness - for instance the Rays now and the Orioles in a couple years.

What team is consistently a contender that does not fit that description?