Just posting an article I thought was a pretty good synopsis about a situation I knew little about. Not making a statement either way, and didn't want quote more than his account of the accident.
That wasn't a shot at you - sorry if seemed that way. More on a comment on how a Boston paper painted it.
I have to admit I was suprised that it was brain cancer that took him. Smart money was on liver damage.
I feel sort of bad for laughing at that.
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But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
It appears that Kennedy made multiple attempts to rescue Mary Jo.
According to him and his buddies.
Unfortunately, this supposedly sober guy and his buddies, all had no thought to take the one action that would have proved that he was making an attempt to rescue her and call the authorities.
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Originally Posted by EddyBeers
If anyone actually thinks that a man who had legitimate Presidential ambitions at the time was "hoping" that she was dead or as has been stated in this forum, was dumb enough to "pray" the body would never be found in an inlet that was 4 feet deep is deluding themselves.
He was dumb enough to go home and have a nap before calling the cops, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to think that he would be "dumb" enough to think they wouldn't find the body.
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The man was a patriot, I'll give him that. His 4 decades of service to his state and country are greatly appreciated, even though I disagree with many of his viewpoints.
That said, he would've been a terrible President and did not deserve to be President. The entire Chappaquiddick incident is one of the most shameful events to ever involve an American political figure. Anyone not named Kennedy would've been crucified for it, and rightly so.
He did his best to redeem himself though, and I appreciate that.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
Good god, I would love to know where in anything regarding Chappaquiddick incident it is alleged that he abandoned Mary Jo. It has been alleged that he drove negilgently, it has even been alleged that he may have been over the limit, but never has it been alleged that he got himself out of the vehicle and abandoned her.
You can't be serious.
He went home and went to bed. That's abandonment no matter how you cut it. I don't care if he dove to try and rescue her for hours. When he declined to call the authorities he abandoned her.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
That article and a New York Times piece from the mid 70's are the best two in-depth articles I have seen on the subject. In my opinion, abandonment would mean that he made no effort to save the girl, he states he made efforts to save her and I believe he did. If anyone actually thinks that a man who had legitimate Presidential ambitions at the time was "hoping" that she was dead or as has been stated in this forum, was dumb enough to "pray" the body would never be found in an inlet that was 4 feet deep is deluding themselves.
Mary Jo had an awful lot of quiet friends over the years who never said anything about Kennedy allegedly drinking way past the limit that evening. If the guy was as drunk as most Conservatives like to make him out to be, one would think that at least one of the 5 close friends of Mary Jo would have said something at some point in time, perhaps even at an judicial inquiry held by Judge Boyle when they were under oath.
As for whether he would have been charged if his name was Smith, I doubt it. I think the prosecution would have had a hard time with no witnesses to prove that he was driving negligently to pass a beyond a reasonable doubt test.
Seriously? You think this is an issue that is divided on political lines? Wow.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
Well it did cost him the nomination to Jimmy Carter (ugh)
Sure, I guess that did cost him but the chances of him unseating a current president and especially one from your own party would normally be pretty slim. Also the Iran situation caused the public to rally around Carter for the time. His best chance would have been in /76 if not for his drunken driving and carousing.
Some his accomplishments besides trying for a U Health Care plan.
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Mr. Kennedy had less impact on foreign policy than on domestic concerns, but when he spoke his voice was influential. He led the Congressional effort to impose sanctions on South Africa over apartheid, pushed for peace in Northern Ireland, won a ban on arms sales to the dictatorship in Chile and denounced the Vietnam War.In 2002, he voted against authorizing the Iraq war; later, he called that opposition “the best vote I’ve made in my 44 years in the United States Senate.”
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Sure, I guess that did cost him but the chances of him unseating a current president and especially one from your own party would normally be pretty slim. Also the Iran situation caused the public to rally around Carter for the time. His best chance would have been in /76 if not for his drunken driving and carousing.
Some his accomplishments besides trying for a U Health Care plan.
His involvement in the Northern Ireland peace process is grossly understated. He was key.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
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Kennedy was easily one of the most recognizable and influential members of the party, and he has remained an icon for liberal progressive-minded people. He was efficient as a politician and was a man of ''second sober thought'', who strongly pushed for cooperation between all parties and the need for legislation to receive proper consideration and improvement before becoming law. His notable accomplishments include the passage of the Nationality and Immigration Act of 1965, who helped to remove discriminatory barriers and allowed people to come in regardless of race or creed.
His liberal and generally progressive views will continue to influence American politics and society, as a form of post-mortem legacy. A state funeral should be appropriate, RIP.
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Originally Posted by shutout By the end of the Olympics when he is the 13th forward and not playing because he is so bad his trade value will be next to nothing and we will be lucky to get a first round pick for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Crosby is gonna remember that pass by Iginla, what a MFing pass by Iggy.
Of course we needed to ressurect that affair...oh well.
In any case the Chappaquaddick incident does not overshadow his impeccable political service of 40 years+, who was nearly beyond reproach.
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Originally Posted by shutout By the end of the Olympics when he is the 13th forward and not playing because he is so bad his trade value will be next to nothing and we will be lucky to get a first round pick for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Crosby is gonna remember that pass by Iginla, what a MFing pass by Iggy.
That Chappaquiddick thing -- this isn't an excuse though I know the usual suspects will pound their fists...
It was 1969 and he's Teddy Kennedy. As if he wasn't completely bombed at that party. Hell, I bet drinking and driving wasn't even illegal then. My guess is that he was so bloody tanked he didn't even know what happened. Dazed, drunk, half-drowned. I wouldn't be surprise if he just staggered away not knowing what the hell was going on or remembering that there was a woman in the car. Or maybe even remembering why he was all wet.
A guy who does something like that is an irresponsible pisstank who has made an awful mistake.
The guy who knows goes home and has a snooze knowing full well there is a dead woman floating in his car and that someone is going to find it when the sun comes up -- that guy is a psychopath.
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Kennedy was easily one of the most recognizable and influential members of the party, and he has remained an icon for liberal progressive-minded people. He was efficient as a politician and was a man of ''second sober thought'', who strongly pushed for cooperation between all parties and the need for legislation to receive proper consideration and improvement before becoming law. His notable accomplishments include the passage of the Nationality and Immigration Act of 1965, who helped to remove discriminatory barriers and allowed people to come in regardless of race or creed.
His liberal and generally progressive views will continue to influence American politics and society, as a form of post-mortem legacy. A state funeral should be appropriate, RIP.
Kind of like Strom Thurmond (sp?) was one of the most influential and recognizable members of his party? IMHO both are equally deserving of whatever it is that they have coming to them, if you believe in that sort of thing...
That Chappaquiddick thing -- this isn't an excuse though I know the usual suspects will pound their fists...
It was 1969 and he's Teddy Kennedy. As if he wasn't completely bombed at that party. Hell, I bet drinking and driving wasn't even illegal then. My guess is that he was so bloody tanked he didn't even know what happened. Dazed, drunk, half-drowned. I wouldn't be surprise if he just staggered away not knowing what the hell was going on or remembering that there was a woman in the car. Or maybe even remembering why he was all wet.
A guy who does something like that is an irresponsible pisstank who has made an awful mistake.
The guy who knows goes home and has a snooze knowing full well there is a dead woman floating in his car and that someone is going to find it when the sun comes up -- that guy is a psychopath.
There's no excuse no matter which way you cut it, whether he was drunk, or whether he knowingly and callously left a young woman to drown.
Kennedy was a great political figure and a member of a great political family.
but because of his personal actions, I really don't think a massive state funeral is appropriate.
I also think that state funerals should be reserved to heads of state or someone who does something heroic on a level that might not be surpassed.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Of course we needed to ressurect that affair...oh well.
In any case the Chappaquaddick incident does not overshadow his impeccable political service of 40 years+, who was nearly beyond reproach.
Why not. A life time of public service does not save a man from his actions nor does it give a reason to ignore those actions and only focus on his positives. Very few people in this world deserve to be remembered as something better than they were after death - he is not one of them.
At least MJ didnt kill anyone.
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Why not. A life time of public service does not save a man from his actions nor does it give a reason to ignore those actions and only focus on his positives.
At least MJ didnt kill anyone.
A lot of presidents have blood on their hands. To examine an entire life is complicated.
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IMHO both are equally deserving of whatever it is that they have coming to them, if you believe in that sort of thing...
