Bow River Flow

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

A lot of people also felt that it was worth it.
.

Perfect - I'm not saying people can't disagree. The city should be weighing the opinions from both sides and figuring out what the best thing to do is.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Perfect - I'm not saying people can't disagree. The city should be weighing the opinions from both sides and figuring out what the best thing to do is.

However the city is bound to grant approval if the transportation department determines that the road closure is ok. Or else every little closure will turn into this micro-managing bonanza, and I think our city council should be focusing their efforts on issues that really matter instead of being bogged down in the minute details.

Are Druh and McIver traffic experts? Heck no, that is why we let the fellas at the transportation department make the calls.

[Bunk]

I think there is also this underlying rift going on in the city in all these debates going on in the city, whether it's a lane reduction for an event, spending on pedestrian bridges with good design, Plan It, and so forth. Embedded in all these debates you hear lots of comments about "latte sipping elitist urbanites" or the reverse "mall dwelling SUV driving suburbanites". There's a lot of vitriol being tossed about.

There clearly seems to be some who want to see Calgary go in one direction and align its priorities with certain things, and those how want Calgary to go in another direction. I think underlying these individual debates about issues is that sort of rift.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Biting satire about Malzac and comparative analysis to Mackenzie Towne are invalid because those are destinations rather than major traffic arteries.

The city has been trying to reduce the use of Memorial as a major traffic artery, as it passes directly through many residential neighbourhoods with no separation; nowhere is this more of an issue than Sunnyside. I think this is probably what Farrel was referring to with the Plan It comment. People looking for a major east-west artery should be using sixteenth, or, on a weekend, the one-ways through downtown. Memorial will, by necessity, remain a feeder artery to downtown, but beyond that, it's planned to become a community street in the same way that 4th street or Bowness Road are.

edit: actually, Elbow Drive from 26-34th is probably the best blueprint for what Memorial Drive will likely become.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Funny you mention that. She showed up in Parkland for a rezoning meeting, and decided to call everybody there snobs. On a mike. Now that takes balls.

Parkland? She showed up to a rezoning meeting to a community not in her ward and called them snobs? That does take balls. Is this the community that wants the city to buy a golf course so their view can be preserved?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I think there is also this underlying rift going on in the city in all these debates going on in the city, whether it's a lane reduction for an event, spending on pedestrian bridges with good design, Plan It, and so forth. Embedded in all these debates you hear lots of comments about "latte sipping elitist urbanites" or the reverse "mall dwelling SUV driving suburbanites". There's a lot of vitriol being tossed about.

There clearly seems to be some who want to see Calgary go in one direction and align its priorities with certain things, and those how want Calgary to go in another direction. I think underlying these individual debates about issues is that sort of rift.

There's some of that to be sure but that's only part of it. I am a urban guy - and I take in a TON of festivls each year - I like this stuff.

But I have little to no faith in how the city is currently run with willy nilly spending, bad ideas, and a council that doesn't listen to the public at all.

For me at least - that's the underlying issue.

[MarchHare]

But I have little to no faith in how the city is currently run with willy nilly spending, bad ideas, and a council that doesn't listen to the public at all.

"Willy nilly spending"

How much did this event cost Calgary taxpayers? I'm guessing not very much (if anything).

"bad ideas"

That's your opinion. If this thread is any indication, the Bow River Flow event was a polarizing issue, with people have strong feelings on both sides. You might consider it a bad idea, but many others enjoyed it.

"council that doesn't listen to the public at all"

How do you know that a majority of the people living in Druh Farrell's ward, those who are most directly affected by this were opposed to the Memorial closure? For all we know, she was acutely listening to the will of her constituents who wanted to see this event happen. It seems to me that the people who are complaining the loudest don't even live in the area and probably wouldn't even use Memorial on a lazy summer Sunday afternoon anyway.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

"Willy nilly spending"

How much did this event cost Calgary taxpayers? I'm guessing not very much (if anything)..

Wasn't talking about this event - just the underlying problems.

Originally Posted by MarchHare

"
"bad ideas"

That's your opinion. If this thread is any indication, the Bow River Flow event was a polarizing issue, with people have strong feelings on both sides. You might consider it a bad idea, but many others enjoyed it.
)..

I already recognized people make disagree. I dont know why people keep acting like I'm not saying there can be a range of opinions

Originally Posted by MarchHare

"
"council that doesn't listen to the public at all"

How do you know that a majority of the people living in Druh Farrell's ward, those who are most directly affected by this were opposed to the Memorial closure? For all we know, she was acutely listening to the will of her constituents who wanted to see this event happen. It seems to me that the people who are complaining the loudest don't even live in the area and probably wouldn't even use Memorial on a lazy summer Sunday afternoon anyway.

Again - I was speaking about core problems. And in my opinion - no she/they didn't listen to the public in this case. Again you can disagree if you want - but I've talked to a LOT of people not happy with this both in the community and around other parts of the city.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Parkland? She showed up to a rezoning meeting to a community not in her ward and called them snobs? That does take balls. Is this the community that wants the city to buy a golf course so their view can be preserved?

What does a golf course have to do with rezoning? I guess people that live downtown don't golf. Is that what you're saying?

People downtown don't have views too?

Jesus, the greatest concentration of political proxy is downtown in Mount Royal. What are you babbling about?

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by Shazam

What does a golf course have to do with rezoning? I guess people that live downtown don't golf. Is that what you're saying?

People downtown don't have views too?

Jesus, the greatest concentration of political proxy is downtown in Mount Royal. What are you babbling about?

??

What are you babbling about?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Shazam

What does a golf course have to do with rezoning? I guess people that live downtown don't golf. Is that what you're saying?

People downtown don't have views too?

Jesus, the greatest concentration of political proxy is downtown in Mount Royal. What are you babbling about?

I thought that was the issue, no? Maybe I'm mistaking my geography - I'm not that familiar with it.

It was my understanding that a developer wants to buy Shawnee Slopes golf course or something like that and develop it? And instead the community wants the City to buy the course partially because they want their view of the golf course preserved or it turned into a park or something.

Edit: Was it the methadone clinic issue?

[yads]

Read quite a bit, but wanted to make the comment that the people against this are basing a lot of their arguments on the assumption that Memorial Drive is a major road. Yes it is during the week, but on Sundays it has on average 850 cars/hour. It can easily handle closing down 2 lanes. The event was meant to promote people getting out of the car and hopping on a bike or walking. I don't understand why this is a less valid reason than a festival?

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by octothorp

The city has been trying to reduce the use of Memorial as a major traffic artery, as it passes directly through many residential neighbourhoods with no separation; nowhere is this more of an issue than Sunnyside. I think this is probably what Farrel was referring to with the Plan It comment. People looking for a major east-west artery should be using sixteenth, or, on a weekend, the one-ways through downtown. Memorial will, by necessity, remain a feeder artery to downtown, but beyond that, it's planned to become a community street in the same way that 4th street or Bowness Road are.

edit: actually, Elbow Drive from 26-34th is probably the best blueprint for what Memorial Drive will likely become.

In which case, I'd suggest they have the cart before the horse. Frankly, however, neither 16th or downtown serves the purpose of moving east-west as simply as Memorial Drive. Until they start physically alterring Memorial to deter volume, they shouldn't be treating it like one of the examples you've provided.

That whole Calgary Parade thing...that's just a bad analogy. A 100 (or something) year-old tradition tied in to a ten-day event equivalent to a fabricated festival to justify lane closures?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by zuluking

In which case, I'd suggest they have the cart before the horse. Frankly, however, neither 16th or downtown serves the purpose of moving east-west as simply as Memorial Drive. Until they start physically alterring Memorial to deter volume, they shouldn't be treating it like one of the examples you've provided.

They can't physically alter Memorial to deter volume because it still needs to be used as a feeder for downtown. Exactly how Elbow is a feeder for downtown as well. If you've ever used it during peak times, you've likely noticed how Memorial is altered, with a reverse-flow traffic lane in the afternoon. But altered to increase the volume, not decrease. To say that a road can only be one thing - either a high-volume feeder or a recreational parkway - is very narrow-sighted.

The expansions to 16th were introduced to take some of the strain of Memorial, and they'll be effective once construction is done. It's faster for me, living in Sunnyside, to take 16th to Shaganappi rather than Memorial.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Bunk

There's lots of events that don't have to take place on a roadway, but do (and on much busier traffic days than this with total closures)

I have been trying to think of these events that close major roadways during busy times but I can't. Can you tell them to me. I am sure that when I hear them I will feel stupid for not thinking of them, but I cannot think of any.
Not including the stampede parade.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

I have been trying to think of these events that close major roadways during busy times but I can't. Can you tell them to me. I am sure that when I hear them I will feel stupid for not thinking of them, but I cannot think of any.
Not including the stampede parade.

Basically any running or walk event like Mother's Day run, run for the cure etc, Full (rather than half closures) like 4th street for Lilic Festival, Sun and Salsa on 10th and Kensington, Inglewood Street Festival for full closer of 9th avenue. Although yes, most road closures are on the weekend like the Bow River Flow. Stampede Parade being the big exception.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Basically any running or walk event like Mother's Day run, run for the cure etc, Full (rather than half closures) like 4th street for Lilic Festival, Sun and Salsa on 10th and Kensington, Inglewood Street Festival for full closer of 9th avenue. Although yes, most road closures are on the weekend like the Bow River Flow. Stampede Parade being the big exception.

OK yeah I can see the runs, they close off some roads for those and sometimes they are a pain. Lilac fest is a big one, but on the one bright side they do not close off 17th and there are many other roads to get around it. Sun and Salsa I think is better location to close off them memorial, just my own opinion as there are more north\south roads in that area then east\west.
I see where you are coming from now though.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I'm just amazed you are still on the "free slurpee" issue.

Well, not to derail or anything, but the deeper meaning of the free slurpee is that tangible results trump convoluted fantasies every time.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

You seem to advocating apathy is how people should approach city matters.

No, I'm advocating that people actually complain about important civic issues, like the incessant suburban sprawl and vast and expensive interchanges that are seen as "necessary" - yet are not - and cost orders of magnitude more than the issues people DO seem to latch onto like pedestrian bridges and Sunday road closures. You see being against Druh's plan as a symbolic gesture against incompetence, I see it as a bunch of Quixotes battling a pinata and mostly losing.

Originally Posted by zuluking

But in this instance, regarding a major thoroughfare in a major city, that is not the case and, as an argument for the closure, inane.

I live practically on this "major" road and I'm telling you that closing it on the weekend is a non-issue. I object to people telling me it IS an issue who don't live here, near here, or come here outside of during the work-week.

It has nothing to do with whether or not it's appropriate to complain about issues in general, and everything to do with complaining about this in particular. It's not worth the effort of even languidly disapproving from under a pub umbrella with a beer.

[4X4]

I don't know what more can be said on this topic. The two sides will never agree. I'm just stunned that so many people are so vehemently against this thing when it's harmless, free, has support from those who are directly affected, and has minimal impact on the rest of the city.

I don't mean this next bit to sound condescending, just wanting to illustrate my point a bit... I wonder how some of you guys would fare in a city like Rome. During the year I was there, roads were closed dozens of times for random things. A concert on Via Imperiali closed the major route through downtown on a monday. Any time an opposing football team's bus came through the city, the whole route was closed and major police escorts were dispatched. Festivals of every kind - be it musical, religious, political (protests)... Strikes where the major central traffic circle were overtaken... Yet somehow, life went on.

I dunno. Just some of the comments in this thread come off as stick-up-ass-ish to me. Calgary seems to have this attitude where rules must be followed at all times or else people lose their bearings and don't know what to do except complain. Just have fun. Enjoy the randomness of an event like this. If it was a complete disaster, it'd be cancelled for next year. Not everything needs to be planned to the last detail. As I said before, some of the best parties are borne out of spontaneuity. And in a city that doesn't have very many things going on, whats wrong with exploring new ideas?

That's pretty much all I have to say. Hope I didn't offend any of you guys that I usually agree with.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't mean this next bit to sound condescending, just wanting to illustrate my point a bit... I wonder how some of you guys would fare in a city like Rome. During the year I was there, roads were closed dozens of times for random things. A concert on Via Imperiali closed the major route through downtown on a monday. Any time an opposing football team's bus came through the city, the whole route was closed and major police escorts were dispatched. Festivals of every kind - be it musical, religious, political (protests)... Strikes where the major central traffic circle were overtaken... Yet somehow, life went on.

All good reasons to shut a road down. Again - that's the key - having a good enough reason. The issue at hand is the fact that some think this reason - just wasn't nearly good enough.