Rep. Barney Frank Lays The Smackdown

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Iraq is a democracy today. It wasn't before the coalition invaded Iraq. I think Bush did accomplish that mission.

Nah, the mission was accomplished when he celebrated on the aircraft carrier.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Nah, the mission was accomplished when he celebrated on the aircraft carrier.

I believe that was the aircraft's mission that was accomplished there. They did play an important role in the invasion at the beginning.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Ok, admittedly yes, on issues like immigration many European countries are bordering on fascism, which is downright scary, but on other issues centred on the social safety net, healthcare, taxation, the environment and so forth, clearly they are not.

Umm which countries? Care to elaborate?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

How did Bush's policies change the country in regards to gay marriage and abortion? What effect did he have?

Well he did push (thankfully unsuccessfully) a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Well he did push (thankfully unsuccessfully) a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage.

No net effect.

The President doesn't have a whole heck of a lot of power to make sweeping policy changes in the US unchecked. We didn't move to the right as a country during those 8 years.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

No net effect.

The President doesn't have a whole heck of a lot of power to make sweeping policy changes in the US unchecked. We didn't move to the right as a country during those 8 years.

It wasn't George Bush alone he also had a republican controlled congress for his first 6 years.

Clearly you'll disagree, but it seemed to me that his administration's policies and positions were constantly pushing the envelope on the right-hand side of the mainstream political spectrum.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Well he did push (thankfully unsuccessfully) a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage.

You do know the US has a Supreme Court, right?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Well he did push (thankfully unsuccessfully) a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage.

Originally Posted by Bunk

It wasn't George Bush alone he also had a republican controlled congress for his first 6 years.

Clearly you'll disagree, but it seemed to me that his administration's policies and positions were constantly pushing the envelope on the right-hand side of the mainstream political spectrum.

Does anyone here understand the philosophical difference between conservatism and liberalism in America today?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Bunk

It wasn't George Bush alone he also had a republican controlled congress for his first 6 years.

Clearly you'll disagree, but it seemed to me that his administration's policies and positions were constantly pushing the envelope on the right-hand side of the mainstream political spectrum.

Pushing the envelope doesn't equate with moving to the right. The fact is America didn't move to the right at all. George Bush's religious beliefs didn't change America.

What the left had a beef with was that George Bush wasn't helping to move the country to the far left. His supreme court nominations weren't activists; they were originalists. He didn't try to institutionalize a government health care system or control any car companies. Apparently he slowed the progress towards a leftist utopia and now Obama is trying to make up ground. George Bush if anything was a moderate and mirrored most of America's core values at least domestically. Barack Obama on the other hand is moving the government left. He is expanding the government faster than has ever been seen and spending money at rates never seen before.

[Displaced Flames fan]

In fact, Bush's religious beliefs are no more radical than any other President we've ever had. He was, maybe, a little more vocal about his beliefs than some recent Presidents.

Faith doesn't automatically make someone a radical, nor does lack of it.