"Religion of Peace March" in London

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You have to wonder how radical Islam is going to effect immigration policies especially in European nations where there's fear of a population or voter take over, and fear of possible future violence.

Does the world eventually shut down easy immigration from Muslim states?

Alot of Euro nations have historical ties with alot of those countries hence the easy immigration from places like Lebanon to France. Say what you want about Canada, but the bonus of having such a red-tape nightmare of a system is alot of these people are shown the closed for business sign.

[VladtheImpaler]

I did not expect this thread to turn into anything, but just have to say - comparing Palin and fundamentalist Christians to the people in the photos? Seriously? I have no time for their views, but to compare them to the people who would happily cut off your head is ridiculous.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I did not expect this thread to turn into anything, but just have to say - comparing Palin and fundamentalist Christians to the people in the photos? Seriously? I have no time for their views, but to compare them to the people who would happily cut off your head is ridiculous.

Sad isn't it?

A politician playing politics is openly compared to a bunch of people who agree with attaching C4 to their chest, along with a bunch of ball-bearings, and going into a crowded market and blowing themselves up.

Some of you REALLY ought to give your head a shake.

There are a ton of Christians in the US that talk openly about the end-times. They have been doing that since long before Palin was even born. But now suddenly, because Palin is doing it, she is comparable to Islamic terrorists?

Talking about a frickin' 'death panel' is called politics. Being an idiot is called politics. She is a POLITICIAN. Not a terrorist.

[Devils'Advocate]

You guys don't think the hatred goes the other way too? We had people here suggesting that we drop nukes on the whole middle east.

A friend of mine was working in Baltimore. They had no problem that she was black and as she doesn't wear the traditional Muslim clothing including the hijab, they didn't know she was Muslim. But when they did, they tortured her until she quit. (Not Gitmo torture, but gave her the hardest assignments with the shortest deadlines, filled her desk drawers with shaving cream, erasing her work off the share drive and then docking her pay for not having the project done.... ). There is a LOT of anti-Muslim hate out there.... and if not Palin herself, then her supporters.

Bush dropping bombs on civilian villages in Somalia, killing innocent men women and children because they wrongly believed that a terrorist was in the village is on par with beheadings in my book.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You guys don't think the hatred goes the other way too? We had people here suggesting that we drop nukes on the whole middle east.

A friend of mine was working in Baltimore. They had no problem that she was black and as she doesn't wear the traditional Muslim clothing including the hijab, they didn't know she was Muslim. But when they did, they tortured her until she quit. (Not Gitmo torture, but gave her the hardest assignments with the shortest deadlines, filled her desk drawers with shaving cream, erasing her work off the share drive and then docking her pay for not having the project done.... ). There is a LOT of anti-Muslim hate out there.... and if not Palin herself, then her supporters.

Bush dropping bombs on civilian villages in Somalia, killing innocent men women and children because they wrongly believed that a terrorist was in the village is on par with beheadings in my book.

I guess the Kindergarten argument of "They did it, so we can do it" makes everything justified.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Byrns

I guess the Kindergarten argument of "They did it, so we can do it" makes everything justified.

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by that. I'm not sure who is being compared to a kindergartner - me, Muslims, Muslim extremists, westerners in general, bigots.... I'm quite lost.

In any case, if you were referring to ME personally, I wasn't suggesting that hatred is acceptable so long as it is reciprocated. I just think the genesis of this thread was to expose all the hateful Muslims out there and I wanted to say that this isn't as one sided as some people think. There is just as much if not more hate out there on the other side. There was a thread not so long ago where people were admitting that they have a flash of fear when they see middle easterners on their flight. My workout partner is Muslim and he's told me about repeated tire slashings outside his mosque. The sad part is that hate begets hate begets more hate. Do you think someone who is repeatedly getting their tires slashed outside their holy place of worship is going to be more or less willing to integrate into western society, when it is clear that for a large number of people, they are unwelcome?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I'm not exactly sure what is meant by that. I'm not sure who is being compared to a kindergartner - me, Muslims, Muslim extremists, westerners in general, bigots.... I'm quite lost.

In any case, if you were referring to ME personally, I wasn't suggesting that hatred is acceptable so long as it is reciprocated. I just think the genesis of this thread was to expose all the hateful Muslims out there and I wanted to say that this isn't as one sided as some people think. There is just as much if not more hate out there on the other side. There was a thread not so long ago where people were admitting that they have a flash of fear when they see middle easterners on their flight. My workout partner is Muslim and he's told me about repeated tire slashings outside his mosque. The sad part is that hate begets hate begets more hate. Do you think someone who is repeatedly getting their tires slashed outside their holy place of worship is going to be more or less willing to integrate into western society, when it is clear that for a large number of people, they are unwelcome?

That's a very good point and very important to remember. But on the flip side, one has to remember that just as it's not the majority of muslims commiting acts of terrorism or causing problems or wielding hateful sentiment, that it's also not the majority of whites or American/Canadian/Christians that are slicing tires or freaking out at airports.

So why do we pay so much attention to the vocal minority on BOTH sides?

[Displaced Flames fan]

I'm pretty sure the intent of the OP was to show the irony of the signs vs. the Religion of Peace protest in London. Wasn't the protest/march/gathering actually CALLED that?

[blankall]

To accuse evangelical christians of purposely promoting war to bring about armaggedon is just religious intolerance, and takes their beliefs totally out of context. You can manipulate anyone's beliefs to make them responsible for the world's problems. Palin has a family to protect just like everyone else.

Personally, I disagree with Evangelicals because of their views on abortion, homosexuality, and many many many many other things. To accuse them of purposely trying to trigger the reckoning is a bit much.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by HOZ

So being an Evangelical Christian means pandering to them?

So being an Evangelical Christian is now a radical, dimwit or crazy?

She was chosen as McCain's running mate partly because she does appeal to what they call "the base". That's pandering in my books.

And no, they aren't all dimwits, but I'd consider anyone who welcomes the end of the world to be both radical and crazy.

Anyone who believes the cryptic messages from a 2000 year old book written by an unknown author to be literally sent from the cosmos by the creator of the universe holds radical beliefs and has, I think, mental health problems.

Talking snakes, dinosaurs with saddles, an entity in the sky reading your mind -- does this seem more reasonable to you than "don't draw pictures of the guy we worship"?

Do you believe in talking snakes? Dinosaurs and man living side-by-side? If not, why not?

[jacenta]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You guys don't think the hatred goes the other way too? We had people here suggesting that we drop nukes on the whole middle east.

A friend of mine was working in Baltimore. They had no problem that she was black and as she doesn't wear the traditional Muslim clothing including the hijab, they didn't know she was Muslim. But when they did, they tortured her until she quit. (Not Gitmo torture, but gave her the hardest assignments with the shortest deadlines, filled her desk drawers with shaving cream, erasing her work off the share drive and then docking her pay for not having the project done.... ). There is a LOT of anti-Muslim hate out there.... and if not Palin herself, then her supporters.

Bush dropping bombs on civilian villages in Somalia, killing innocent men women and children because they wrongly believed that a terrorist was in the village is on par with beheadings in my book.

I think the focus should be not on the fact that your friend was Muslim, because this type of persecution/harrassment happens to all religions/belief, race, even people of certain ages can be discriminated against, but on the fact that there are people who will still persecute any of the above mentioned differences. What ever happened to love thy neighbor, or treat others how you want to be treated. And posting information about something that is going on in the world is not targeting, it's called being informed.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

She was chosen as McCain's running mate partly because she does appeal to what they call "the base". That's pandering in my books.

And no, they aren't all dimwits, but I'd consider anyone who welcomes the end of the world to be both radical and crazy.

Anyone who believes the cryptic messages from a 2000 year old book written by an unknown author to be literally sent from the cosmos by the creator of the universe holds radical beliefs and has, I think, mental health problems.

Talking snakes, dinosaurs with saddles, an entity in the sky reading your mind -- does this seem more reasonable to you than "don't draw pictures of the guy we worship"?

Do you believe in talking snakes? Dinosaurs and man living side-by-side? If not, why not?

So McCain was pandering, and not Palin. And what exactly do you know about Palin's beliefs? Are you now assuming she believes everything that her minister spouts? If yes...then should we not wonder about the President of the United States and his 20 year affiliation with a very radical church group?

[blankall]

To those criticizing Palin, you should remember that Obama also belongs to an evangelical church.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

She was chosen as McCain's running mate partly because she does appeal to what they call "the base". That's pandering in my books.

And no, they aren't all dimwits, but I'd consider anyone who welcomes the end of the world to be both radical and crazy.

Anyone who believes the cryptic messages from a 2000 year old book written by an unknown author to be literally sent from the cosmos by the creator of the universe holds radical beliefs and has, I think, mental health problems.

Talking snakes, dinosaurs with saddles, an entity in the sky reading your mind -- does this seem more reasonable to you than "don't draw pictures of the guy we worship"?

Do you believe in talking snakes? Dinosaurs and man living side-by-side? If not, why not?

Agreed, especially on the dimwits part.

But, that still doesn't equate her to a Islamic Terrorist.

[photon]

Originally Posted by blankall

To those criticizing Palin, you should remember that Obama also belongs to an evangelical church.

True, though what one's church teaches and what one actually thinks can be two very different things.

I went by what has come out of Obama's mouth vs. Palin's mouth. Obama either does an excellent job of separating his beliefs from his job, or holds much more liberal views about Christianity than his church would indicate. Either way, what he said was much more inclusive and accepting. (EDIT: Or Obama is an atheist/agnostic but goes to church because there's 0% chance he'd get elected if he was public about that).

I criticize Palin based on what she said. She spoke as if she was much more influenced by her beliefs.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by blankall

To those criticizing Palin, you should remember that Obama also belongs to an evangelical church.

what!? I could have sworn that he was a muslim. at least that's what sarah palin's supporters have told me.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Azure

Agreed, especially on the dimwits part.

But, that still doesn't equate her to a Islamic Terrorist.

True, but we're not talking about terrorists, we are talking (or at least were talking) about a bunch of fools holding up signs.

The people in the pictures in the original post believe stupid things and they write those stupid beliefs on signs and get their picture in the paper.

They are not terrorists, they are just fools. The people that believe the Christian craziness are not terrorists either, but they are just as crazy as the people with the placards in the photos.

I don't think Sarah Palin is a terrorist, I think she is a fool. I don't think those dummies with the signs are terrorists, I know they are fools.

The implication, as I took it, from the original post in this thread, is that Islam is not a "religion of peace". It's my opinion that the "religions of peace" are few and far between, but I don't see much of a difference between that religion and the rest of them.

Or to put it another way -- posting old photos of stupid people who happen to be Muslims with idiotic signs and saying "that religion is not peaceful" is not much different than posting pictures of Geoffrey Dahmer and saying "men in Milwaukee rape, kill and eat male prostitutes".

[Thor]

Sucks we get into Palin debate again, this should be about those dirty stinkin muslims.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by photon

True, though what one's church teaches and what one actually thinks can be two very different things.

I went by what has come out of Obama's mouth vs. Palin's mouth. Obama either does an excellent job of separating his beliefs from his job, or holds much more liberal views about Christianity than his church would indicate. Either way, what he said was much more inclusive and accepting. (EDIT: Or Obama is an atheist/agnostic but goes to church because there's 0% chance he'd get elected if he was public about that).

I criticize Palin based on what she said. She spoke as if she was much more influenced by her beliefs.

You have some misconceptions about Obama. On the night of his election he threw gays under the bus. He refused to say even a word agaisnt the anti-gay marriage bills in California.

If you think that Obama is not a fundamentalist Christian in every sense of the word, you are kidding yourself. He has always beeen extremely vocal about his Christian beliefs and his attendance at church (although he did distance himself from his former pastors racist beliefs). Obama has constanly and consistently spoke of the church as a pillar of the community. What separation from church and state are you talking about?

As for zero percent chance of election for saying you go to church, this is ridiculous. Do you have any idea what percentage of the US population is evangelical? Saying you go to church is almost a prerequisite for running. Both Hillary and Obama made sure to ham that up on many many ocassions. States like New York may be fairly agnostic, but these states are the exception and aren't swing states.

To win an election you need to be able to convince the swing states to vote for you. Many of these have a strong Christian voting base.

Just because your left wing sites that have spent the last 10 years spouting crap about republicans don't focus on this, doesn't make it untrue.

Obama is a politician like any other. Anyone who is expecting real change from him, will be sadly dissapointed.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Thor

Sucks we get into Palin debate again, this should be about those dirty stinkin muslims.

Hey, you work for the CHRC, don't you?