Zeitgeist, 9/11, and Other Conspiracies

[starseed]

I have not been following this thread, so this topic may be redundant... it is sort of 9/11 related, but not really.

Matthew Good wrote on his website something that took me by surprise (which may have something to do with my being only 21).

In fact, one of the most troubling operations to ever be floated was a ‘false flag’ operation involving the possibility of staging domestic acts of terrorism in the hopes of altering public perception with regards to domestic support for an invasion of Cuba. And I am, by no means, making that up. You can read the memorandum drawn up by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962 regarding Operation Northwoods for yourself right here. In that document the following can be found…

“We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.
The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

Now – that wasn’t something thought up by a handful of guys in a cave somewhere. It was thought up by Americans to specifically terrorize other Americans. And while it was never put into action, it was still drafted and then endorsed by General Lyman Lemnitzer, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time. In short, the country’s top military commander signed off on it.

http://www.matthewgood.org/2009/07/its-nothing-new/
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20...northwoods.pdf


Was there outrage when these documents were declassified? Was there an investigation?

[transplant99]

It was thought up by Americans to specifically terrorize other Americans

This seems like a "way over the top" descpription of this contingency.

Rumors, innuendo, "fake-outs" and all those kind of things have been used by military forces worldwide for ever.

When this memo was written, one has to remember that Cuba was seen as a serious threat to US sovereignty. (Rightly or wrongly...it was there) Provoking them before they were ready to defnd themselves seems like a pretty heads-up strategy along with selling it to the US population who were not sure where the whole Cuba/Soviet Union relationship was headed.

This, IMO, was nothing more than a way to engage Cuba militarily if things became a bit too un-nerving for the government's liking. Also, it would of had to been approved by JFK if they wanted to move forward with it, and he was ALL about diplomacy first and actions second.

Since none of it ever occurred, it really is a non news worthy thing.

Every government in the world has contingency plans for all sorts of scenarios involving all other countries in the world. Hell I bet one of the bigger US contingency folders includes how to invade Canada should it ever need to happen...and likely vice-versa.

That being said...it can be frightening to see how far some will go to advance their causes.

[starseed]

I see your point, but iirc, the soviet union also thought Castro was going to be against them, and said as much publicly. It is really disturbing and telling when you hear that the Joint Cheifs were willing to sacrifice innocent American lives for the sake of propaganda.

**edit- actually this memo was from '62, after it became obvious that Castro had ties to the soviet union.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Every government in the world has contingency plans for all sorts of scenarios involving all other countries in the world. Hell I bet one of the bigger US contingency folders includes how to invade Canada should it ever need to happen...and likely vice-versa.

While not current, there was an actual plan tabled in the 1910s or 1920s to invade Canada incase the need ever arose.

While there is likely a newer uptodate plan we won't see, it goes to show that stuff like that does exist, even between two of the world's biggest allies and trading partners.

All about contingency plans and "what ifs"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

While not current, there was an actual plan tabled in the 1910s or 1920s to invade Canada incase the need ever arose.

While there is likely a newer uptodate plan we won't see, it goes to show that stuff like that does exist, even between two of the world's biggest allies and trading partners.

All about contingency plans and "what ifs"

The last time that the plan was updated was during the FLQ crisis, the American's planned for the possibility of a civil was between Quebec and the rest of Canada and because Canada at the time was considered a strategic lynch pin during the cold war, they asked the question of what they would have to do to stabilize the country.

[starseed]

I read somewhere that Washington was worried Quebec would become a soviet satellite. It is a pretty crazy thought. What would have happened if US troops entered into Quebec to quell a Quebecois socialist revolution?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by starseed

I have not been following this thread, so this topic may be redundant... it is sort of 9/11 related, but not really.

Matthew Good wrote on his website something that took me by surprise (which may have something to do with my being only 21).



http://www.matthewgood.org/2009/07/its-nothing-new/
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20...northwoods.pdf


Was there outrage when these documents were declassified? Was there an investigation?

I have read about Operation Northwoods, it is interesting isn't it?
If you do some research, you will find that most wars that America has entered in have been the result of a false flag event, including Vietnam, WW1, WW2, and now the Iraq/Afghanistan war.........
Why was there no outrage when the Operation Northwood documents were released?.........your average American knows nothing about it because it was not plastered all over the news....and the ones that do know figure "oh that was a long time ago, the government couldn't get away with that now".......kind of attitude.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Here is an ABC News article on Operation Northwoods.
http://www.infowars.com/saved%20page...bc_bamford.htm

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by starseed

I read somewhere that Washington was worried Quebec would become a soviet satellite. It is a pretty crazy thought.

Well, I don't think they were "worried" as much as they just wanted to be prepared. Quebec on one side and Cuba on the other and things can get pretty dicey.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Every government in the world has contingency plans for all sorts of scenarios involving all other countries in the world. Hell I bet one of the bigger US contingency folders includes how to invade Canada should it ever need to happen...and likely vice-versa.

American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

Canadian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red

Canadian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1

LOL!

seize Seattle, Washington; Great Falls, Montana; Minneapolis, Minnesota; and Albany, New York in a surprise attack.[1] When resistance stiffened, the Canadians would retreat to their own borders, destroying bridges and railways to hinder American pursuit.

Ahahahahhaha! This is great. It's like when the little kid goes and punches the big kid in the nuts, then runs away while throwing toys and whatnot on the ground for the big kid to dodge around. I won't lie, this strategy works.

Boys never really do grow up.

[starseed]

It sounds like a good strategy. All they needed to do was keep the US army off balance until Britain could send help.

Awesome analogy

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

LOL!

seize Seattle, Washington; Great Falls, Montana; Minneapolis, Minnesota; and Albany, New York in a surprise attack.[1] When resistance stiffened, the Canadians would retreat to their own borders, destroying bridges and railways to hinder American pursuit.

Ahahahahhaha! This is great. It's like when the little kid goes and punches the big kid in the nuts, then runs away while throwing toys and whatnot on the ground for the big kid to dodge around. I won't lie, this strategy works.

Boys never really do grow up.

Uh, they are required probably by some sort of law to have a plan like that in place.

I would venture a bet that the Wikipedia article is 95% made up. No way in hell any of this stuff is made public....and the Pentagon keeps the same plan.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

If you do some research, you will find that most wars that America has entered in have been the result of a false flag event, including Vietnam, WW1, WW2

So.. what false flag event caused the US to enter WWI, and WWII?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Azure

I would venture a bet that the Wikipedia article is 95% made up. No way in hell any of this stuff is made public....and the Pentagon keeps the same plan.

"in 1928, the scheme was terminated"

I don't think there's really any danger of the plan being exposed at this point.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by arsenal

So.. what false flag event caused the US to enter WWI, and WWII?

Well, maybe not a false flag event per se, but the U.S. had no intention of entering WW1, that is until the sinking of the Lusitania, which had American citizens on it. Here is some info. on the Lusitania.
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://en...Kpw5hmKqCxEsJQ

The Germans declared the waters around England to be an official war zone, and warned that any ships in the area would be sunk. Well, the Americans ignored this warning, and the ship went in there anyways. The Lusitania was also carrying military cargo, mostly ammo to supply to Germanys' enemies.

The U.S., as we all know entered WW2 after the Pearl Harbor incident.
Well here is some reading on that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_H...owledge_debate

"There has been ongoing controversy due to allegations made by conspiracy theorists, and former armed forces personnel that some members of the Roosevelt administration had advance knowledge of the attack, and that this was purposefully ignored in order to gain public and Congressional support for America entering the war on the side of the British Empire and her allies."

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well, maybe not a false flag event per se, but the U.S. had no intention of entering WW1, that is until the sinking of the Lusitania, which had American citizens on it. Here is some info. on the Lusitania.
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://en...Kpw5hmKqCxEsJQ

The Germans declared the waters around England to be an official war zone, and warned that any ships in the area would be sunk. Well, the Americans ignored this warning, and the ship went in there anyways. The Lusitania was also carrying military cargo, mostly ammo to supply to Germanys' enemies.

I actually think the German telegram to Mexico had more to do with the US getting involved in WWI. Sure the actions of the U boats softened the isolationist attitudes of the American population. If you want argue over the real source of the telegram, as in if the Brits manufactured it go ahead.

And to add to false flag event discussion, lets talk about the Spanish-American War. Remember the Maine!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

"There has been ongoing controversy due to allegations made by conspiracy theorists, and former armed forces personnel that some members of the Roosevelt administration had advance knowledge of the attack, and that this was purposefully ignored in order to gain public and Congressional support for America entering the war on the side of the British Empire and her allies."

That's not a False Flag event.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Azure

Uh, they are required probably by some sort of law to have a plan like that in place.

I would venture a bet that the Wikipedia article is 95% made up. No way in hell any of this stuff is made public....and the Pentagon keeps the same plan.

Not true. War Plan Red was definitely real, and was declassified in 1974. Wikipedia has a copy of the actual document linked, and it is quite an interesting read. Defence Scheme No. 1 likely has a similar history. These things became public because there was no reason to care about them anymore. War with Great Britain over Canada with Australia and New Zealand in support in a pacific theatre is obviously nothing the world has to worry about any longer.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not true. War Plan Red was definitely real, and was declassified in 1974. Wikipedia has a copy of the actual document linked, and it is quite an interesting read. Defence Scheme No. 1 likely has a similar history. These things became public because there was no reason to care about them anymore. War with Great Britain over Canada with Australia and New Zealand in support in a pacific theatre is obviously nothing the world has to worry about any longer.

Okay.

But, I'm sure that the Pentagon has another plan sitting around somewhere....and the public will never hear about it until it becomes declassified.