Do they nolonger take off demerits for tickets if you show up in Court? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Hack&Lube · 08-03-2009, 06:01 PM

I've just gotten my first speeding ticket in my life after 10 years of driving, I was behind an erratic RV on a packed Highway 1 coming back from Jasper and I was drowsy and frustrated with crazy traffic issues over the past 5 hours and sped up pretty fast to get around it and left my foot on the gas a little too long and cop was parked behind a bridge and got me. I absolutely deserve the ticket but I am a safe driver and would normally not drive at those speeds. It is easy to get to 140 KPH from 110 KPH at highway speeds, acceleration only takes a few seconds on the pedal with a decent car and it just happened in an instant...but being 30 over means 4 demerit points.

It was my understanding that they used to give you an informal option of reducing demerits or reducing the fine, but I recall hearing somewhere that they nolonger do this if you show up to court and talk to the Prosecutor (I intend to plead guilty anyway). Is this true?

Jayems · 08-03-2009, 06:22 PM

They won't completely take the demerits off anymore. However, you can plead guilty to a lesser offense which usually comes with less demerits. IE: Plead guilty to 10km/h over rather than 20km/hr over. Most of mine I've argued resulted in one or two demerits knocked off, but not completely.

Prepare yourself for the "you did the crime, pay the fine" crowd.

Kjesse · 08-03-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayems

They won't completely take the demerits off anymore. However, you can plead guilty to a lesser offense which usually comes with less demerits. IE: Plead guilty to 10km/h over rather than 20km/hr over. Most of mine I've argued resulted in one or two demerits knocked off, but not completely.

You can still get the demerits reduced to zero, actually.

It just takes more work. It used to be automatic that they'd accept a plea to a no demerit offense in place of the one you were charged with. Now, you have to show that you're actually serious about contesting the charge on its merits.

Make the prosecutor's office work hard.... demand detailed disclosure, not just the officer's notes... ie., if you've been charged with speeding, demand the operating manual for the radar device, and details about the calibration tests, together with any records that exist regarding the officer's training with the device.

Edit: And to it as soon as you get your ticket. Send a letter to prosecutor's office quoting the number of the offense ticket requesting that disclosure. When your first appearance comes, show that you still don't have disclosure (because they won't have done it by then). Be firm about getting the disclosure and send a second letter.

There are other methods for getting the Crown to be easier to negotiate with, but they all involve you asserting an actual defense.

HOOT · 08-03-2009, 07:08 PM

This is why everyone should spend money on a radar detector/jammer if you have a decent car. I couldn't imagine the money I would have spent on speeding tickets if it wasn't for that thing.

jar_e · 08-03-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

This is why everyone should spend money on a radar detector/jammer if you have a decent car. I couldn't imagine the money I would have spent on speeding tickets if it wasn't for that thing.

FWIW, that won't work in Calgary where CPS uses laser.

HOOT · 08-03-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar_e

FWIW, that won't work in Calgary where CPS uses laser.

Oh but it does. It is a radar detector and laser jammer.

It will warn me for basic radar but will actually jam up the laser gun when I get close. It is the funniest thing ever seeing a cop looking at his device as I drive by at a normal speed once I know.

jar_e · 08-03-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

Oh but it does. It is a radar detector and laser jammer.

It will warn me for basic radar but will actually jam up the laser gun when I get close. It is the funniest thing ever seeing a cop looking at his device as I drive by at a normal speed once I know.

A laser jammer that works? I'm impressed...most of them don't work. And I should clarify my previous post...obviously photo radar out of the multinova cams is done by radar...laser is used be street cops.

DOK · 08-03-2009, 07:31 PM

If this is your first ticket in 10 years, I'd just pay and forget about it. Insurance forgives however many demerits if that's the worry. You obviously won't be nearing the limit if your only speeding once in a blue moon.

Hack&Lube · 08-03-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

I think the "left your foot on the gas pedal for too long" defence may just work. Willie Dewitt has nothing on you.

I've decided to claim freedom under common law instead. Rock solid defence. I'll being by faxing the crown the freeman manifesto 1 page at a time and if that fails, I'll look for a lawyer on Kijiji.

GreatWhiteEbola · 08-03-2009, 08:23 PM

Tell the justice of peace that you would like to speak with the prosecutor. Meet with the prosecutor in the first offense area/ first appearance area <or whatever that place is called>. Tell the prosecutor that you need your license for work and it is important that you keep the integrity of your license.

It has worked for me every time, 5 tickets.

You can also plead guilty to a lesser offense, as was mentioned before, there is a certain law that means you plead guilty to the offense but it doesn't carry any demerits. I wish I could remember the specifics.

Kjesse · 08-03-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jar_e

A laser jammer that works? I'm impressed...most of them don't work. And I should clarify my previous post...obviously photo radar out of the multinova cams is done by radar...laser is used be street cops.

I can confirm laser jammers work. I have a Laser Interceptor installed on my car and yesterday outside of Banff I had a spectacular 'save' at very close range. That was the latest of a few saves from the jammer in the last year, but this was the first time I was hit by 'laser' on a highway. Usually its KA band radar and the V1 has without fail given me ample notice of any highway speed traps.

I thought I was toast... as did my passenger. Slowed down quickly, turned the jammer off, hoped for the best. Sure enough, I got nothing more than a dirty look.

I-Hate-Hulse · 08-04-2009, 12:20 AM

Do tell more about these jammers. I was under the general impression these were still in the realm of mad scientists from Eastern Europe peddling snake oil. Can they be bought here? Tough to install? (hardwired I'm guessing)

starseed · 08-04-2009, 12:52 AM

How much do they cost? Are they completely legal in Alberta?

If I go to other states/provinces, is it easy to uninstall?

HOOT · 08-04-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Do tell more about these jammers. I was under the general impression these were still in the realm of mad scientists from Eastern Europe peddling snake oil. Can they be bought here? Tough to install? (hardwired I'm guessing)

Quote:

Originally Posted by starseed

How much do they cost? Are they completely legal in Alberta?

If I go to other states/provinces, is it easy to uninstall?

You can get ones that you can plug into your lighter or hardwire. I honestly can't remember how much I paid I have had mine for ~4 years both in BC and Alberta with no tickets and many many warnings.

There are some states and provinces they are illegal but Alberta and BC aren't one of them.

edit: looks like Alberta, Sask and BC are the only provinces it is legal and only 7 states is it illegal.

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/rad...ector-laws.php

edit 2: This is the one I have (just a few years old) and it works like a charm.

http://rockymountainradar.com/store/12-rmr-c435

It's $200 but how much are tickets and points?

starseed · 08-04-2009, 01:33 AM

Aren't the jammers illegal though? What kind of warnings do you get? Is it because of the jammer?

Finner · 08-04-2009, 01:44 AM

Both Laser Jammers and Radar detectors are legal in Alberta, BC and Saskatchewan, however both are not allowed in the rest of Canada.

I've always thought of getting one but i'm not sure if it's a scam, or if they actually work.

HOOT · 08-04-2009, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starseed

Aren't the jammers illegal though? What kind of warnings do you get? Is it because of the jammer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finner

Both Laser Jammers and Radar detectors are legal in Alberta, BC and Saskatchewan, however both are not allowed in the rest of Canada.

I've always thought of getting one but i'm not sure if it's a scam, or if they actually work.

Police near by; like just driving past you or behind you: it just beeps lightly every few seconds.

Detects Radar/Laser (near you): Beeps louder and more frequently.

Jamming Radar/Laser (on you): It honks! It is so loud I remember the first time it went off I almost shat my pants.

In BC they can still give you a ticket on how fast the cop thinks you are going so you still have to slow down but it gives you about 2km.

starseed · 08-04-2009, 02:31 AM

OK, so after googling and looking at RMR's site that HOOT linked to, it seems that while radar jammers are illegal everywhere, the radar scrambler is legal:

Quote:

The FCC regulates all consumer products that transmit or leak radio frequency into the air. (Part 15 of the FCC code) Since the scrambler and the scrambler portion of the combination units do not transmit but merely act as a reflective receiver they are legal under the FCC regulations; the receiver portion of the combination units are FCC Certified. Regarding the laser scrambler, there are no Federal laws against transmission of infrared light, so the laser-scrambling portion is legal as well. And all the units have an FCC label on the bottom.

Obviously the FCC does not have jurisdiction in Canada, but it explains why these devices are legal.

I thought only radar detectors were legal, and not the scrambler/jammer devices.

I have no reason not to get one now.

Do they sell these at vision's or other electronics stores in Calgary, or do you have to buy it online?

Kjesse · 08-04-2009, 02:38 AM

Stay away from Rocky Mountain Radar. (Sorry HOOT, but I've heard enough bad press on them over the years I'm convinced, but can't say I've ever tried one... I could be wrong.)

(Radar jammers are illegal, yet RMR claims to be one... they have been fined by the US authorities for their false claims)

Check out this site from a group called "Guys of LIDAR", they do (IMHO) non-biased reviews of radar detectors and LIDAR jammers.

http://www.guysoflidar.com/

Also:

http://www.radarjammer.com/index.htm

HOOT · 08-04-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delgar

Stay away from Rocky Mountain Radar. (Sorry HOOT, but I've heard enough bad press on them over the years I'm convinced, but can't say I've ever tried one... I could be wrong.)

No need to be sorry. It is the only one I have ever had and it works for me so I'm not to sure if the bad press was them just using jammer instead of scrambler but as long as I don't get tickets I don't care.