Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[Table 5]

This bridge won't singlehandedly turn Calgary into a world-class city, it would be moronic to even suggest that.

But it will add towards making Calgary something more than is it today, that being a city built on something else than just "wham bam thank you maam" values. A nice piece of architecture will beget another, and add towards it being a more interesting place to visit and live.

Things like this tend to build over time....just think of what one piece of nice architecture did to Bilbao. Who ever heard of that place before Frank Gehry came calling with his design? That one museum transformed it from a quiet industrial city into a place that is now on most Spain visitors maps. Our bridge is not that ambitious, but it does help in the grand scheme of things.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm all for nice architecture, I'm all for more museums and green spaces, and things like improvements to the zoo.

I just don't think that the bridge design is all that awe inspiring. To be honest I thinks its actually quite plain and more or less ugly.

To me this whole situation is like a large family in a small home needing a bigger house, so a richer uncle gives them money to add some rooms onto the house and make some much needed repairs to the foundation. The father of the family goes out and buys some paintings and restocks his wine rack instead, then realizes that he pissed the money away on something frivolous so he starts charging his pre-teen children rent to make up the short fall. Meanwhile the wine turns out to be more expensive then he first realized when he gets his credit card bill.

[trew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Part of it is the timing of it. This bridge came as city hall delivered a bloated budget and raised taxes. The message being sent to the public continues to be - we can't control our spending. Examples:
- The Bridge
- The artwork at the water treatment facility
- The purchase of the Cecil
- The gym at City Hall.

When forced to trim the budget City Hall merely moved cash around in the books to manufacture a decrease.

Again - the bridge is not the issue - it's just the issue people have issued to focus on the larger problem of overspending....at a time when the economy isn't good at all.

If this council could demonstrate an ability to set priorities, and manage a budget I wouldn't have a problem with this bridge.

But this bridge isn't in their budget. It's part of provincial money and is being spent at a time where the government is looking for stimulus infrastructure spending. The province would really have to hate this project to not build it right now.

If the province spent 30 million dollars to add drab pedestrian lanes to the center street underbridge, there wouldn't be anywhere near as much fuss. Even though the project would offer a fraction of the benefit and cost more money. As long as it doesn't stick out, people would be happy to ignore it.

Bottom line, times are tough, and people can't get past the optics of a flashy bridge from some artsy designer architect. Painting it red just makes matters worse. It's so not conservative, and so not Calgary. It must be a huge waste of money.

This thing isn't so much of a bridge as a giant soapbox.

[Dion]

The $25 million is enough to pay for the design of two bridges but will only build one--and that's if the project stays on budget, which it rarely does with Calatrava.

Critics of his bridge in Venice say it went four times over budget, while council maintained it would come in at double the initial estimate. The project was so widely hated, the city cancelled the lavish opening ceremony planned in August.

Controversy follows Calatrava wherever he goes. Opponents to a suspension bridge he built in Jerusalem objected to an alleged lack of transparency in the planning process. They were also angered by the price, said in 2004 to be nearly 70 per cent more than a conventional concrete bridge.

When administration was asked to explain why city staff recommended opening design talks directly with Calatrava, John Hubbell, the city's general manager of transportation, said, "He has a world reputation for designing very nice bridges."

But, Mr. Hubbell, he didn't always have that reputation. Calatrava was unknown when he opened his architectural firm in Zurich, Switzerland. It was only thanks to a local competition that gave him an opportunity to compete that he won his first major commission a year later. He designed Zurich's Stadelhofen Railway Station, thus launching his successful career.

Calgary and Alberta are full of talented architects, engineers and designers. I dare say there are more than a few future Calatravas among us who equally deserve a chance to compete.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...ec0dc9c157&p=1

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Dion's article

Calgary and Alberta are full of talented architects, engineers and designers. I dare say there are more than a few future Calatravas among us who equally deserve a chance to compete.]

I'll take this bet. Calatrava is not just an above-average architect which you can find in every city. The guy is a generational talent.....there are very few living architects today who's designs are as unique and recognizable as his.

I'm going to say this bridge won't be his crowning achievement, but to think any half dozen architects in Calgary, talented as they may be, could pull a Calatrava out of their ass is just not true.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by trew

But this bridge isn't in their budget. It's part of provincial money and is being spent at a time where the government is looking for stimulus infrastructure spending. .

The city is deciding how the money is spent. It doesn't matter if its in the official budget or not - it's part of the funds they have on hand to spend - and as such one can question how they are doing so.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'm going to say this bridge won't be his crowning achievement, but to think any half dozen architects in Calgary, talented as they may be, could pull a Calatrava out of their ass is just not true.

Agreed. this might have been a problem if there was only one bridge being designed; perhaps a bridge competition would have been in order then. But in reality, there are two bridges being built, and the 2nd one is going to be a design competition where the local firms will strut their stuff.

There are no bridge designers in Calgary that can match the experience and reputation of Calatrava. Dion's article also insinuates that this pedestrian bridge WILL go over-budget. The only way you'll ever know is when it actually gets built. This bridge is nowhere NEAR the extravagance of his other bridges, and that's a reality that people are going to have to live with. Calatrava said himself that this bridge isn't like anything he's done before.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I'll take this bet. Calatrava is not just an above-average architect which you can find in every city. The guy is a generational talent.....there are very few living architects today who's designs are as unique and recognizable as his.

You're forgetting Calatrava was once a unknown who was given a chance through a local competition. Yet we'll never know if another Calatrava is out there if we don't hold open competitions for infrastructure projects.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Dion

You're forgetting Calatrava was once a unknown who was given a chance through a local competition. Yet we'll never know if another Calatrava is out there if we don't hold open competitions for infrastructure projects.

But we are doing exactly that.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

But we are doing exactly that.

Not on the Peace bridge.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Dion

Not on the Peace bridge.

So we have to hold a competition on everything now? The plan all along was to have one bridge being delegated to an experienced designer, and the other one for a competition. I think that's a pretty reasonable way of doing things (even if the way the process was executed wasn't).

I wish somebody wouldve held an open competition on Cross Iron Mills....god that thing is ugly.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

When administration was asked to explain why city staff recommended opening design talks directly with Calatrava, John Hubbell, the city's general manager of transportation, said, "He has a world reputation for designing very nice bridges."
But, Mr. Hubbell, he didn't always have that reputation. Calatrava was unknown when he opened his architectural firm in Zurich, Switzerland. It was only thanks to a local competition that gave him an opportunity to compete that he won his first major commission a year later. He designed Zurich's Stadelhofen Railway Station, thus launching his successful career.

edit: didn't read the whole article.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

You're forgetting Calatrava was once a unknown who was given a chance through a local competition. Yet we'll never know if another Calatrava is out there if we don't hold open competitions for infrastructure projects.

Originally Posted by Table 5

But we are doing exactly that.

Originally Posted by Dion

Not on the Peace bridge.

So are you proposing that the city hold open competitions on everything?

[trew]

Has anyone seen any reports or quotes from architects critical of the bridge the design cost or the process?

I keep seeing articles from the Herald bemoaning how a local competition was absolutely necessary for this project. Yet I don't believe I've ever seen a quote, from a local architect, that said "This bridge is too expensive and we could have done better for cheaper given the opportunity".

Through the grapevine, the comment I've heard is actually quite the opposite. The design fees from Calatrava are probably cheaper than what a capable Canadian firm would have charged to work out the engineering on such a complicated bridge. This comment was supposedly spoken by a prominent Calgarian architect.

EDIT: See my next post for an out of country opinion, sounds like the design fees might be a bit high but the price of the project, as estimated, is not.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

So we have to hold a competition on everything now? The plan all along was to have one bridge being delegated to an experienced designer, and the other one for a competition. I think that's a pretty reasonable way of doing things (even if the way the process was executed wasn't).

Let others compete and see what they come up with. If it turns out Calatrava has the best design then fine you go ahead with the project. I just don't agree with handing the project over to someone without an open competition. It may be provinical money we're using here but I still think council has a duty to try and balance design vs cost and get the best value for our tax dollars. Any savings could be put toward other infrastructure projects that are coming up.

[nik-]

Just think of the costs if we had competition on everything haha oh man.

[Table 5]

You could basically build a bridge every year just from the money it would take to put together all those competitions.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nik-

Just think of the costs if we had competition on everything haha oh man.

Yeah it might have come in less expensive with a better looking design, but we'll never know because this city council was label infatuated long ago.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah it might have come in less expensive with a better looking design, but we'll never know because this city council was label infatuated long ago.

When you were in the army, did you take a vote on every military action? Or did you trust your commanders to do the right thing?

I think sometimes you have to trust the people you put into power, and let them do their thing. Dissecting every little action will drive everyone mad and nothing will get done. If you don't agree, you can always make your vote count the next time.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah it might have come in less expensive with a better looking design, but we'll never know because this city council was label infatuated long ago.

Yup, we'll never know. We can safely compare this City Council to the Nazi's.