GAME 5: Saskatchewan at CALGARY STAMPEDERS

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And I should add that I'm in no way trying to convert CFL fans to NFL fans. In fact, I'd rather you stay the hell away so that the price of Sunday Ticket doesn't go up.

understandable, and keep watching both, they may have their differences, but thier both football!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

aha. no, but hitmen hockey is quite entertaining. a few reasons here,
the flames are always on tv, in high def. the hitmen are on the tv rarely on shaw, in SD.
the ingame experience is so much better at flames games with the sea of red, the atmosphere(ie full building).
the flames don't have that forced turnover every year that junior teams have, you have guys like Iginla and Regher here for years.
the Flames play teams from cities from across north america, HItmen not as much.
they are both good, but we can both agree that going to a Flames game is more of a treat than going to a Hitmen game.
there are more probably that i can't think of.
anyways Flames games are more expensive so a straight up deal one for one wouldnt be fair would it?

Go to an NFL or college game in the U.S. The atmosphere completely blows anything in Canada out of the water.

your right, with only 8 teams=4 games/week, there better be some close games, and there are lots of close games in the nfl every week too, your right. i guess i missaid that, i find CFL games to be closer to the last minute, as another poster mentioned, often in the games that are close in the nfl, you know who is going to win with a few minutes left, where in the CFL it is often down to the last minute in a one score game. (due to the shorter timeclock/less downs). [/quote]

Technically this is true, but would it have made any difference to you if the game ended after Burris went 0/3 as opposed to 0/6? It basically boils down to one less drive. Also, the way the NFL operates with the 3 timeouts and two minute warning means those last minute drives have to be extra cerebral and tactical, which makes them extremely intenst and dramatic, IMO.

that and i find them more entertaining, but that is my opinion. also following a team from my hometown has an impact in my enjoyment, and the fact that almost all the games during the week have an impact on my favourite teams standings has an impact. if i followed a team in the nfl, there are lots of games that have no impact on my team, teams my team may not play at all during the season.

Not true. Every game that involves a team that is in the same conference as your team has an impact on your team's playoff hopes. And all that being said, one of the best parts of NFL Sundays is the gambling. The Dolphins are 0-6 and playing the Bengals who are 1-5, and the game means nothing? Put $50 on Miami and tell me you don't care.

[Machiavelli]

Are the Stamps 2-3 now, too?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

understandable, and keep watching both, they may have their differences, but thier both football!

I'm really the CFL's battered housewife. I keep running to the shelter and bitching about how much it's abused, swearing I'll never go back; only to be back at the shelter a week later with a black eye and heart full of lament.

Seriously though, if you love the CFL because of the big dramatic plays, you should really get into NCAA ball. It's an absolute treat to watch (especially the bowl games). I'm a huge football fan in general and I think the NCAA is just fantastic.

[bigal]

When an NFL fan starts talking about how they dominate the rest of the world then that is when their arguments lose all credibility. The CFL is national league that does not project itself as really anything more than that. Similar to national soccer leagues in France or Holland. Obviously, the talent level is less than the English Premier League for instance. But the leagues still have a significant following.

The problem with the NFL is there is a massive disconnect between how it and its fans perceive the league and reality. It is projected as the worlds greatest league
when the reality is it is clearly not. It really is nothing more than another national league in a sport with almost zero worldwide appeal. The NFL is simply not on the radar screen in the sporting world outside North America, unlike the English Premier League for example.

And by the way, was there not a very similar touchdown scored by Phoenix in the dying minutes of last years Super Bowl? The fault with tonight's game was not the big play at the end, but the inability of Calgary's offence to get first downs at critical times.

Re: NCAA...you have go to be kidding? A "league" that does not even have a proper way of determining a national champion. That is the definition of bush league. It really is no different that American Idol.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

really? NFL is better because no big plays can happen? because game's are settled with more than 5 minutes left??

nfl = ZzZzZ

No, the NFL is better because the defense is much better so this thing doesn't happen to a same team once every 5 weeks.

Build your way up the field and score. Sure, thats just offense outplaying D. But when a 50+ yarder happens very often int he final minutes, thats bad defense.

Sure, it's exciting and does give the final minutes. But it's still defense making mistakes in those situation constantly. It loses it's wow feel to it. When this happens in the NFL, it's a really wow moment because it happens less frequently since the players are a lot better at keeping their coverages to not blow those so easily late in the game.

EDIT: I guess I should add that when I say NFL better that's in my opinion and I don't mean to state it as a fact. I'm just a believe that when I say something that it's implied under my opinion automatically.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Go to an NFL or college game in the U.S. The atmosphere completely blows anything in Canada out of the water.

im sure your right, i have never been to an american college or nfl game and have heard the atmosphere is great. i will likely go to one of each, just going to one of those games with 100,000 fans at it would be intense, i wish we supported our CFL/College teams like that, americans sure get intense about football!
speaking of which, I went to an Australian football league game when I was there, the atmosphere was lacking, it was an entertaining (albiet weird) game but our group of canadians/americans was the loudest in the section by far.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Technically this is true, but would it have made any difference to you if the game ended after Burris went 0/3 as opposed to 0/6? It basically boils down to one less drive. Also, the way the NFL operates with the 3 timeouts and two minute warning means those last minute drives have to be extra cerebral and tactical, which makes them extremely intenst and dramatic, IMO.

well in hindsight maybe not, but what if burris had gotten us somewhere on those, on the first series he couldve marched for a field goal, then the riders couldve marched right back, or been stopped. but who knows. deangelis should've made that field goal and the pressure would've been on the riders.
but i think i get what your saying, its a different type of drama, id rather see lots of plays then watching the coaches/players think about what they are going to do. both games have it set up to slow the game down at the end, but when a team gets the ball and can kill the clock on 4 40 second plays over 3 20 second plays, thats over 2x as much time. I would have rather had it been like tonight then the riders have the win before the Stamps getting that last possesion, even if Burris blew it on his throws. it gave them a chance.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not true. Every game that involves a team that is in the same conference as your team has an impact on your team's playoff hopes. And all that being said, one of the best parts of NFL Sundays is the gambling. The Dolphins are 0-6 and playing the Bengals who are 1-5, and the game means nothing? Put $50 on Miami and tell me you don't care.

i guess so, but maybe a its a larger impact in the CFL, if your in first in the NFL and a team is in 15th in the conference, i guess it matters, but that team has to climb over lots of teams, whereas with only 2 teams to climb, the team in last matters a little more to the first place club. i see what your saying with the betting, that has never been my thing, but for people who do that it does add excitement for sure. i guess thats one of the positives of having so many teams right? i mean thats how many canadians get excited about teams so far away, they bet on them, with only 8 teams, there is less to bet on.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by bigal

When an NFL fan starts talking about how they dominate the rest of the world then that is when their arguments lose all credibility. The CFL is national league that does not project itself as really anything more than that. Similar to national soccer leagues in France or Holland. Obviously, the talent level is less than the English Premier League for instance. But the leagues still have a significant following.

The problem with the NFL is there is a massive disconnect between how it and its fans perceive the league and reality. It is projected as the worlds greatest league
when the reality is it is clearly not. It really is nothing more than another national league in a sport with almost zero worldwide appeal. The NFL is simply not on the radar screen in the sporting world outside North America, unlike the English Premier League for example.

And by the way, was there not a very similar touchdown scored by Phoenix in the dying minutes of last years Super Bowl? The fault with tonight's game was not the big play at the end, but the inability of Calgary's offence to get first downs at critical times.

Re: NCAA...you have go to be kidding? A "league" that does not even have a proper way of determining a national champion. That is the definition of bush league. It really is no different that American Idol.

interesting thoughts, and to get a perspective more international than canada and the states.
as per NCAA, Rubecube is right, NCAA is great, but your right in that the system to decide the champion is kind of rediculous. there should be a playoff system but how do you do that with so many divisions/teams etc. maybe less div 1 teams etc, make more divisions. im not sure how you fix that, but some kind of playoff system would be good.
look at the CIS system, it actually is much better. there are 4 divisions, they each play the season then playoffs to decide a champion of each division. the division winners play ala final four format, then the two winners play for the Vanier cup.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's easier to like a league when you've got a rooting interest in one of the teams. There's a reason the CFL is a Canadian-only phenomenon and the NFL dominates the rest of the world.

Nobody cares about football outside of the US and Canada. The NFL doesn't even register, and there's a reason it never worked when they tried taking it overseas - IT'S BORING! "NFL dominates the rest of the world" - what a joke.

Your bolded statement is why the NFL is popular, along with fantasy teams and a culture built around gameday, as the games aren't nearly exciting enough on their own to entice fans from other countries. NFL blows goats and has since the late 80s; I'd 1000X rather watch American college ball or the CFL.

The one thing the league does excel at is hype and flash to cover up the fact that 95% of the game is sheer tedium and maybe 5% mildly entertaining. "Ooh, a fair catch!" "Wow, 2 yard run into the line!" "Look, he threw the ball 4 yards downfield!" "Another fair catch!" Now that's excitement!

Again, I don't spend the whole NFL season in the NFL threads putting down the grinding borefests that pass as professional football games in the US, so why do people insist on coming into a Canadian football thread and making the same tired observations about how the CFL is bush and the NFL is the realm of gods who kindly condescend to come down and play football for the entertainment of their worshippers. Every year it's the same crap and it gets real old, real fast.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by bigal

When an NFL fan starts talking about how they dominate the rest of the world then that is when their arguments lose all credibility. The CFL is national league that does not project itself as really anything more than that. Similar to national soccer leagues in France or Holland. Obviously, the talent level is less than the English Premier League for instance. But the leagues still have a significant following.

To say that is completely ignorant of the fact that the CFL and NFL had similar talent levels at one time. Guys like Russ Jackson turned down NFL contracts because the CFL was an equal or better league in their eyes, and able to offer them similar contracts. Why has this changed? Because the NFL designed a better prodcut and captured a bigger market (granted they had a larger population to work with).

The problem with the NFL is there is a massive disconnect between how it and its fans perceive the league and reality. It is projected as the worlds greatest league
when the reality is it is clearly not. It really is nothing more than another national league in a sport with almost zero worldwide appeal. The NFL is simply not on the radar screen in the sporting world outside North America, unlike the English Premier League for example.

Again, wrong. The international games the NFL has put on have been incredibly successful, and it's been growing at a steady rate internationally. It's actually quite similar to the way the MLS has been growing/expanding in North America.

And by the way, was there not a very similar touchdown scored by Phoenix in the dying minutes of last years Super Bowl? The fault with tonight's game was not the big play at the end, but the inability of Calgary's offence to get first downs at critical times.

It was blown coverage and should've never happened. Mind you it was also arguably the best receiver in football beating that coverage and not some two-bit hick from Saskatchewan.

Re: NCAA...you have go to be kidding? A "league" that does not even have a proper way of determining a national champion. That is the definition of bush league. It really is no different that American Idol.

Yeah, regular season games shouldn't be important in deciding who is the best team in the country.

Signed,
The BPL

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jammies

Your bolded statement is why the NFL is popular, along with fantasy teams and a culture built around gameday, as the games aren't nearly exciting enough on their own to entice fans from other countries. NFL blows goats and has since the late 80s; I'd 1000X rather watch American college ball or the CFL.

There wouldn't be fantasy or a "culture" built around it if the product didn't deliver. It's not like the NFL has a long history to fall back on like MLB. It's exploded in popularity because it's exciting.

The one thing the league does excel at is hype and flash to cover up the fact that 95% of the game is sheer tedium and maybe 5% mildly entertaining. "Ooh, a fair catch!" "Wow, 2 yard run into the line!" "Look, he threw the ball 4 yards downfield!" "Another fair catch!" Now that's excitement!

"Wow a ten yard out on a field the size of an acrage, how'd the DB not cover that?"

And a no yards penalty is so much more exciting than a fair catch.

"Hey, that guy missed a field goal. Oh well, give him a point for trying really hard."

[jammies]

Now about the game - the Riders defence and the Stamps defence played well, but both offences were mediocre at best. The Riders pulled off the one big play which won them the game, and to their credit they spent the whole game setting up that play with the short passing game until the Stamps D started playing up on the receivers and then got burned.

This game the Stamps really involved Reynolds from the start, which was good, but the passing game really lacked variety. Probably 80% of the attempts were at receivers around 10-12 yards downfield, and mostly out near the sidelines. Burris didn't stretch the defence, didn't set up the screen passes, didn't do much of anything other than hand it off and fire passes at guys standing still on the sidelines and no threat to take it deep downfield. I have to question Cortez's play calling - he took advantage of the run game made available by the Riders, but the pass game was very weak against a Riders defence that is not very good and could have been beaten with a different emphasis on moving the ball deeper, especially considering Burris sometimes had all day back there.

I also thought the Stamps looked complacent, as if they just had to show up to beat the Riders. Hufnagel better do something about that attitude, as it seems that execution is lackadaisical on offence and the defence can only do so much.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There wouldn't be fantasy or a "culture" built around it if the product didn't deliver. It's not like the NFL has a long history to fall back on like MLB. It's exploded in popularity because it's exciting.

Dude, Transformers 2 made a lot of money. If that doesn't tell you how hype overcomes quality, I don't know what else could ever convince you.

[bigal]

The NFL can pay higher salaries because of television contracts today that did not exist when the CFL and NFL talent levels were similar. It has absolutely nothing to do with the "better" product. The gambling and fantasy leagues, all a relatively new phenomenon, are all part of the push to increase TV ratings and consequently TV contracts.

The NFL may have had moderate success in playing limited games in foreign markets but has this resulted in...teams in foreign markets? national leagues in foreign markets? significant merchandise sales in foreign markets? again in relation to other top world sports leagues.

[bigal]

As has been pointed out, I thought I could come here and discuss the game not argue about the NFL. To the topic at hand, what do you guys think...can the Stamps still finish in first?...even with losing two home games at this point and a road game to the worst team in the league. I just don't know where the team's head is at this point. Of course, they were 2-3 last year too.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jammies

Dude, Transformers 2 made a lot of money. If that doesn't tell you how hype overcomes quality, I don't know what else could ever convince you.

So did The Dark Knight. What's your point?

[calgaryrocks]

as per the game,
of course as a Stamps fan, I still think they can finish first, but it will be interesting, it may be a good thing not to finish first actually, come in to the west final as the underdog, fighting to go home, soo much pressure to host the div. final then the cup.
its a long season though, look at last year, with the Roughies out to a 6-0 start. right now the Stamps are one game back of edmonton and sask. they still play the riders a few times and the eskies alot. labour day will again be a large decider on wether this team goes up or down. they have the pieces, but still not the week in week out focus.

[bigal]

The frustrating thing is the Eskimos went from one more bad quarter and benching Ricky Ray to worldbeaters in the space of a week. Regardless of tonight's game, it is going to be between Cal and Edm for the division this year. I figure Calgary has to win 3 of the 4 head to head games to finish first with the hole they have dug for themselves so far.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There wouldn't be fantasy or a "culture" built around it if the product didn't deliver. It's not like the NFL has a long history to fall back on like MLB. It's exploded in popularity because it's exciting.



"Wow a ten yard out on a field the size of an acrage, how'd the DB not cover that?"

And a no yards penalty is so much more exciting than a fair catch.

"Hey, that guy missed a field goal. Oh well, give him a point for trying really hard."

your right, the nfl doesn't have the rich history of the cfl or mlb, but it has skyrocketed since the 60s. good management, the upswing of televised sports and other factors like population led to its success. they were both equal in the 60s (CFL and NFL) but the NFL had more to work with (including rich owners and government willing to put money into sports).

as per no yards, it forces the player to make a play, he will still get hit, and it often doesn't matter if the kick is returned for more than 5 yards (often the case). fair catch = don't hit me, im not even going to try and run.
they are both to protect the fielder of a punt, but one goes a little too far imo, taking away big plays to avoid getting pounded (who doesn't enjoy a solid hit?).
as per the 'rouge' it is part of the strategy, to say it is a point for trying really hard is inaccurate. it forces the other team to make a decision, like a safety. give the offence/kicker credit for getting the ball into the other teams endzone, missed field goal or a punt. the defending team has to decide to give the team a point and get the ball at the 35, or run it out and hope to gain yardage. in a close game this is huge, in the NFL it is usually automatic to down the ball and take a FREE 20 yards, where in the CFL new players to the leauge may make a mistake costing the game. in a close game, a team has to decide if giving up that point from a punt into the endzone is going to hurt them.
now on a missed kick that the other team has no chance of returning (ie it goes out of bounds) maybe he shouldn't get one, but that is still a 30 yard kick at minimum, ill give that a point. the endzone is big, its tough to clear it. its not like the nfl where the field goal is at the back of the endzone, if you go wide, there is no chance of return! in the cfl there is 20 yards in there. most missed fieldgoals don't make it through the endzone because of this. its a different strategy element than occours in the NFL game.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by bigal

The frustrating thing is the Eskimos went from one more bad quarter and benching Ricky Ray to worldbeaters in the space of a week. Regardless of tonight's game, it is going to be between Cal and Edm for the division this year. I figure Calgary has to win 3 of the 4 head to head games to finish first with the hole they have dug for themselves so far.

soo frustrating, i was watching the als-esks game on thursday, couldn't believe it.
I agree it will be calgary and edmonton for first, they will definitly have to win 3 of the 4, hopefully they can pulll off a rare labour day week sweep.